The Apothecary Diaries - Corrections Topic


  • Member

    This post is deleted!

  • Premium Member

    Favorite part very begging [[there's a blank line break here]] I think it doesn't go well with the story on this part


  • Premium Member

    @Kevin-S Well I think one the issues with nymph is it is generally associated with Greek mythology very strongly. Even if you do a search for nymph online the results that come back refer to greek including the wiki. So it seems rather wrong to use a being from a totally different mythos to describe someone in a Chinese like/asian like setting (even if there is some less known version in asian culture maybe). Same goes with angel/angelic and as you said fairy is off the table considering its derogatory use at times especially considering some the content of this series.

    Ideally celestial maiden would be best and also is a term used to describe the kind of being he gets compared to.

    Some other possible options would be ethereal or maybe more fitting as that one can get thought as more a ghostly/spiritual connotation at times (even if he seems to just appear out of nowhere at times.) would be Empyreal beauty/maiden/person where you can mix them up a bit if deem so need with them what seems rather fitting.

    Things like tennyo wouldn't work since even people decently immersed in asian based material might not know what it is let alone the layman.

    Again both nymph and angel are to strongly connected to other cultures an fairy is just completely a no go. Also on a lil side note someone who reads the the japanese source LN to their mother pointed out that nymph is just awkward to say and sounding.

    Now you could leave it as nymph but it just seems a very ill fitting overall term to use to describe him in a very asian setting story.


  • Member

    @Kevin-S said in The Apothecary Diaries - Corrections Topic:

    Are you saying that "celestial maiden" is what you ended up going with for "apsara"?

    The choice was "celestial maiden" or just leave it as apsara. But a Western audience likely hasn't heard of apsara before, so the former one was the more sensible choice. This is why I don't think it would be good to use tennyo.

    The problem I kind of have with nymph is similar to why I don't like using kebab in this kind of setting: I associate it too much with a different culture. I'm thinking of Greek spirits when I hear nymph, just as I connect kebab with Middle Eastern cooking.


  • Premium Member

    @C-Ray Perhaps it's contradictory that I was the first person who objected to kebab in this thread, but I'm not so troubled with nymph? Maybe it's because my background is from an Asian culture, so Greek mythology is sometimes synonymous with "Western mythology" in my mind (despite knowing the existence of Roman, Celtic, Norse mythology), so when translating terms related to a culture's celestial hierarchy to English, there's a high chance I'd default to Greek myth terms if nothing else fits.

    So in relation to nymph, tennyo is similarly an existence that is a resident of "heaven" but of lower status than deities, and often characterized as sexually appealing. In mythological stories, they are often presented as trophy love interest or a test against temptation. So while I like the sound of celestial maiden more, nymph is fine by me. Angel on the other hand has an asexual image, strongly associated with Abrahamic religions' idea of heaven, so it's significantly off.

    Kebab as a translation for kushiyaki, however, is down to how kebab is understood in North America (shish kebab, grilled meat on skewers) vs many other places (doner kebab, grilled meat shaved off a huge vertical rotisserie). So it sounds wrong to me, but if a North American (JNC's primary market) is fine then I suppose I have no choice but to concede.


  • Member

    @nofairytale Well, I understand that JNC's primary market is North America, but since it's an English translation, I don't think it's bad to keep the rest of the English-speaking audience in mind. Since you brought up the example of how, depending on the place, people can mistake kebab, grilled meat skewer wouldn't be a term that could be mistaken for something else.


  • Translators

    @nofairytale said in The Apothecary Diaries - Corrections Topic:

    Kebab as a translation for kushiyaki, however, is down to how kebab is understood in North America (shish kebab, grilled meat on skewers) vs many other places (doner kebab, grilled meat shaved off a huge vertical rotisserie). So it sounds wrong to me, but if a North American (JNC's primary market) is fine then I suppose I have no choice but to concede.

    Forgive me if I just missed something earlier, but I think this is an angle you didn't mention when we were first having the discussion around "kebab." I'm coming from a US English background, and though I've lived overseas in a couple of places over the course of my life, I never realized kebab might have this nuance for some speakers. (As if we needed more evidence that all people, and all translators, have blind spots!) I appreciate the perspective.


  • Premium Member

    @Kevin-S Yeah, it was something I didn't know at that time either. That time, since it was the first sentence of the novel, only the Middle Eastern origin of the word popped up to me, similar to @C-Ray 's concerns. It only came to me later "why is kebab used when it doesn't even mean the same food?", and I somehow stumbled on the shish kebab connection. I'm from Indonesia, has lived in Australia and spent some time in Europe, and in all those places, when you talk about kebab, you usually mean shaved grilled meat rolled in flatbread.

    (By the way, may I know your thoughts on my question from the previous page?)


  • Translators

    @nofairytale said in The Apothecary Diaries - Corrections Topic:

    @Kevin-S Yeah, it was something I didn't know at that time either. That time, since it was the first sentence of the novel, only the Middle Eastern origin of the word popped up to me, similar to @C-Ray 's concerns. It only came to me later "why is kebab used when it doesn't even mean the same food?", and I somehow stumbled on the shish kebab connection. I'm from Indonesia, has lived in Australia and spent some time in Europe, and in all those places, when you talk about kebab, you usually mean shaved grilled meat rolled in flatbread.

    Again, very interesting. If the word shish kebab were used instead, would that bring up the right image, or isn't that expression used much outside of the US? (I understand it would still leave the issue of ethnic/regional background of the word; I'm just curious if it would communicate the intended meaning more clearly.)


  • Member

    @Kevin-S It depends on the region, but most people should understand what you mean if you said shish kebab, though many countries just use their own word for grilled meat skewer like brochette.

    Compare it to someone who asks you where you can eat kebab in the US and they actually meant dรถner kebab. You know what they want if they specifically ask for dรถner kebab, though you might bring them to a diner that serves gyros or shawarma.


  • Premium Member

    @Kevin-S said in The Apothecary Diaries - Corrections Topic:

    If the word shish kebab were used instead, would that bring up the right image, or isn't that expression used much outside of the US? (I understand it would still leave the issue of ethnic/regional background of the word; I'm just curious if it would communicate the intended meaning more clearly.)

    If you ask me, then I still strongly prefer meat skewers. ๐Ÿ˜… Using shishkebab is just making it even more of a specific dish.

    I stand by the translation with one possible qualification. For your interest, here's the original Japanese:

    ๆ€งๅˆฅใ•ใˆ้•ใˆใฐๅ‚พๅ›ฝใซใชใ‚‹ใจใ„ใ‚ใ‚ŒใŸๅฃฌๆฐใงใ‚ใ‚‹ใŒใ€ๆœฌไบบใŒใใฎๆฐ—ใงใ‚ใ‚Œใฐ็š‡ๅธใ‚’ๅ‰ใซใ—ใฆใ‚‚ๆ€งๅˆฅใชใฉๆ„ๅ‘ณใŒใชใ„ใ‚‚ใฎใจใ€ใ†ใ‚Œใ—ใใ‚‚ใชใ„่ค’ใ‚่จ€่‘‰ใ‚’ใ‚‚ใ‚‰ใ†ใ€‚

    Seibetsu sae chigaeba keikoku ni naru to iwareta Jinshi de aru ga, hon'nin ga sono ki de areba koutei wo mae ni shitemo seibetsu nado imi ga nai mono to, ureshiku mo nai home-kotoba wo morau.


  • Translators


Log in to reply