Allowing user to copy text in the reader into clipboard
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@alfonso_rd_36 I tend to agree with @AlexUsman that wanting to use copy/paste to preserve the text for your use after their legitimate availability period has ended would probably support the anti-copy/paste side of the discussion.
However, I am also sympathetic with your position.
The term "piracy" is hyperbole that fails to capture important nuance. In particular, wealth (or lack thereof) is an important element of this conversation that rarely gets addressed. It's not like content pirates are sailing the high seas looking for vulnerable publishers to plunder their content libraries. Rather, most "pirates" are just poor people who can't afford the content otherwise.
When I was a broke college kid back in the Napster era, I pirated a lot of music. I felt guilty about it at the time, but in retrospect I think the industry actually benefited long-term by maintaining its relationship with me (even if unwittingly). Now that I am older and have more means, I have gone back and purchased albums that I had previously pirated because I value having high-quality versions of the songs with correct metadata at my fingertips. The convenience of being able to do this with a single mouse-click, c.f. searching for copies of dubious quality/completeness/provenance on torrent sites is well worth the ~$10 to me. I now own hundreds of albums - far more than I could possibly have purchased as a student. And I continue to seek-out and purchase new music at a time in my life when a lot of my peers have largely stopped doing so as family or career take precedence.
That said, there is no particular reason that JNC should be willing to "take one for the team" in the hope of encouraging LN readership decades down the line. And also, not all pirates are just poor people - the really nefarious ones are the ones who make and distribute unauthorized copies for personal gain. So I understand and support JNC wanting to discourage this behavior.
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true, I know things aren't as easy as Pink and a reddish Pink as many might want it to be. In my case, I have considered both Sides of the topic and the block, yes, I found it annoying but I get it.
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@Tube said in Allowing user to copy text in the reader into clipboard:
"I'm a paying customer, please make sure what I get is at least as good of a product as what pirates get for free"?
you are a paying customer, you are entitled to what you paid for.
the argument "what I pay for should be as good as what someone else steals" I'm finding difficult to parse.
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A bit of a stretch...but you don't see how...if you're about to fly...and had a choice to fly free in first class or pay for coach/economy, that the majority would choose the former?
Now you have the factors of legality and morality to add to the mix, but a lot of that to will be ignored since there really isn't any consequences for not choosing the legitimate route.
I think this is Tube's argument summed up. Many are going to think "why would I pay for something, that I can get free and with a better experience". And then just going the free route without truly thinking about it.
Then you are going to have paying customers that will feel wronged for not getting at least as good of an experience as those not paying. That will then lead them to question why continue paying for a subpar experience, to then stop being a paying customer and join the other side.
So let's say you did pay for that coach ticket, then got on the plane and first class was still open, and asked the flight attendant if you could switch and they said no because it wasn't fair to the rest of coach customers so you return to your coach seat. A moment later first class fills up by randoms that just walked on to the plane without paying a dime. Would you feel wronged? I would.
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@Khaos That airplane analogy falls flat when you realize that there is a lot more economy seating than first class seating. So while you may fly free in first class, how long do you intend wait for your "free" spot on a plane when competing with hundreds of others?
I also don't get where this pirate discussion came from, because pirates wouldn't even be using this site at all. People who want to enable piracy may use this site, but I doubt there'd be any technical hurdle that's going to stop those people. After all if they're patient, they can just get a copy of the premium epub and do wholesale copying of even higher quality text.
I see the existence of unofficial readers more along the lines of game mods. Do you play vanilla (i.e. JNC reader) or do you play modded (i.e. unofficial reader)? In either case, the game has be paid for[1], now its possible to play the game as one desires[2].
[1] I'm ignoring the fact that it's possible to pirate games.
[2] Servers enforce limits on what can be done, but that just changes the question into a matter of willingness and effort to run a private server.I personally don't care if copying text works in the reader or not. Though since the official JNC position appears to be that members doing proofreading is a possibility not a priority, I'd go with no, since copying text for proofreading purposes isn't a compelling enough reason[3].
[3] I'm not saying that people are not allowed to request that a modded feature be added to the vanilla experience. But I am saying that the devs are allowed to say no, until someone gives them a reason they can agree with. -
@endoftheline said in Allowing user to copy text in the reader into clipboard:
@Khaos That airplane analogy falls flat when you realize that there is a lot more economy seating than first class seating. So while you may fly free in first class, how long do you intend wait for your "free" spot on a plane when competing with hundreds of others?
Sorry but that has nothing to do with the point that I was proving. Though as I said at the very beginning of the post it is a stretch since the plane analogy is a completely unreal situation. Also, if anything if what you're saying just solidifies the analogy...since in reality in this situation there is no limit to the amount of people that could be using the "first class" option.
I also don't get where this pirate discussion came from, because pirates wouldn't even be using this site at all. People who want to enable piracy may use this site, but I doubt there'd be any technical hurdle that's going to stop those people. After all if they're patient, they can just get a copy of the premium epub and do wholesale copying of even higher quality text.
The pirate discussion came to be, because it was the dev that said they were not enabling copy&paste in the official app to help prevent it. And you're above statement is kind of what the people that are fighting for copy&paste are saying. No point in not having in in the official if its in the 3rd party readers where the pirates will just easily migrate to, if for some reason they aren't already there.
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@Jon-Mitchell said in Allowing user to copy text in the reader into clipboard:
you are a paying customer, you are entitled to what you paid for.
the argument "what I pay for should be as good as what someone else steals" I'm finding difficult to parse.
I have absolutely no idea where you get the idea that this is about entitlement. This is a suggestion towards JNC: if you want to keep your paying customers (even those who have no moral problems with piracy), please provide the paying customers what pirates get for free. No one here is being an entitled bastard even if you are really hard trying to frame it like that. Like no s**t it is JNC in the end who decides what they provide and what they do not provide??? Or are you saying that customers are not allowed to give feedback on the features they'd like to have? I'm sure you are not because that would be a ridiculous stance.
@endoftheline said in Allowing user to copy text in the reader into clipboard:
That airplane analogy falls flat when you realize that there is a lot more economy seating than first class seating. So while you may fly free in first class, how long do you intend wait for your "free" spot on a plane when competing with hundreds of others?
Then imagine a plane with an unlimited number of economy seats and an unlimited number of first class seats because that is basically how digital goods work. Marginal cost (that means the resources needed for producing each individual unit for sales, does not count initial investments) per unit sold (or pirated) is very near zero.
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All right, this discussion has been going nowhere for a while now.
Thank you for your suggestions, we appreciate your input in improving J-Novel Club's products and services. This topic will now be locked.