Library Trivia (from Bookworm Discussion)
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@weasalopes said in Library Trivia (from Bookworm Discussion):
Libraries are somewhat different (as you mentioned at the beginning), in that the inventory control software works on the premise that you keep sending the same inventory out and back.
Until you realize that 90% what ended up in that particular warehouse's shipping department wasn't supposed to be there, and had to be put away again.
As for locating strays that missed being added:
After re-shelving, you make a simple script that checks the LMS database for any book in the system thatdoesn't have an associated RFID tag in the system and puts them all in a list, preferably including their proper shelving location. Then you simply hunt them down one by one and add them. -
The library I worked at when I was in college (25 years ago) actually used that RFID technology. It's been around for a while. I worked in the acquisitions department, and it was part of my job to stick those strips in the spine of the new books and scan them into the system. And yeah, it made checking out books easy because you just had to swipe the book over the pad at the counter, you didn't have to open it to fetch the card or try to figure out where the barcode was to scan it.
I don't think we had the capability to walk down the aisle and scan the books to see if they were in the correct place or not though. I'd be very surprised if there aren't libraries already doing that nowadays though considering the core technology is that old.
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@weasalopes said in Library Trivia (from Bookworm Discussion):
Won't work; has to correlate to the individual record for that specific book that's already in your LMS system, so you need to tie it to the bar coded circ label placed on the cover by the library.
I'm finding these posts really interesting, but i'm curious about this. do they absolutely have to use a barcode? couldn't an RFID system replace even the barcode, or do you know of an underlying reason they haven't? I'm really curious about this since i've never really had the opportunity to ask. when i volunteered i was just doing shelving and checkouts without diving into the why's, and when i was a patron the librarians always seemed too busy for me to feel comfortable asking.
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@redrocketgame said in Library Trivia (from Bookworm Discussion):
@weasalopes said in Library Trivia (from Bookworm Discussion):
Won't work; has to correlate to the individual record for that specific book that's already in your LMS system, so you need to tie it to the bar coded circ label placed on the cover by the library.
I'm finding these posts really interesting, but i'm curious about this. do they absolutely have to use a barcode? couldn't an RFID system replace even the barcode, or do you know of an underlying reason they haven't? I'm really curious about this since i've never really had the opportunity to ask. when i volunteered i was just doing shelving and checkouts without diving into the why's, and when i was a patron the librarians always seemed too busy for me to feel comfortable asking.
Technically, yes, it could.
All you need is a unique serial number ascociated with each book. You can acomplish that using either barcodes or RFID alone.
We were specifically disscussing the feasibility of converting from a barcode-based system to an RFID-based system.
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@redrocketgame said in Library Trivia (from Bookworm Discussion):
@weasalopes said in Library Trivia (from Bookworm Discussion):
Won't work; has to correlate to the individual record for that specific book that's already in your LMS system, so you need to tie it to the bar coded circ label placed on the cover by the library.
I'm finding these posts really interesting, but i'm curious about this. do they absolutely have to use a barcode? couldn't an RFID system replace even the barcode, or do you know of an underlying reason they haven't? I'm really curious about this since i've never really had the opportunity to ask. when i volunteered i was just doing shelving and checkouts without diving into the why's, and when i was a patron the librarians always seemed too busy for me to feel comfortable asking.
Once you have converted to an RFID system, you can and should discontinue using barcodes.
As @piisfun said, what we're discussing is the process of changing from a barcode system to an RFID system.It's an upgrade, not a clean install, to put it in more standard home computing parlance.
After you are done setting up the RFID system (including getting the check-out and book return stations up and running), any new books will just get the RFID tag, and no barcode; everything the barcode had been used for can be handled using the RFID system, and a ton more as well.
There'll inevitably be a period of time, short as it may be, where the old system using barcodes and the new system using RFID are both in use, until all materials that had been checked out prior to the switchover have been returned (or declared lost).
Well, unless you do it as a "shut down all circulation of materials prior to switching over" thing, where you don't start the conversion process until everything has been returned (or declared lost); you'd set a deadline for return of all materials
and once that deadline passed you'd do the conversion process and yank the barcode scanning hardware from the check-out and book return locations and replace them with the RFID hardware; anything not converted would be treated as 'lost' and the record of its existence flushed from the database, because there shouldn't be anything in use that hadn't been converted.
If anything did show up later that hadn't been converted, you'd flag down a librarian to handle it; whether it would get added into the database and returned to circulation, or treated as something deliberately removed from the collection would be their call.
The really nice thing about doing such a conversion project is that at the end of it all, you shouldn't have anything showing as owned by the library in its online catalog that hadn't been physically verified as still being there. This is a wonderful thing, and from the perspective of any veteran librarian worth every bit of hassle involved in the conversion process.
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ok i hadn't quite grasped that it was about converting one to the other, I thought it was about having both systems in place.
I suppose something of an in-place conversion wouldn't be too feasible, one where you slap on an RFID tag and remove the barcode whenever a material is returned (admittedly I suspect that'd delay returns a bit, and depending on how the barcode is attached removing it might not be great for the material, my library had some paperbacks where the barcode was attached in a way that it would damage the material to remove it) not a flawless system since material that is rarely checked out wouldn't get dealt with without seeking it out, and i'd bet on other issues too.
however it's handled though I definitely think such a system would be really nice, and I wonder if you could make use of the RFID tags in some manner to make finding the physical material easier (my brain goes towards the idea of a light on the shelf that can be toggled on if the tag is close and it's being looked for)
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@redrocketgame said in Library Trivia (from Bookworm Discussion):
ok i hadn't quite grasped that it was about converting one to the other, I thought it was about having both systems in place.
I suppose something of an in-place conversion wouldn't be too feasible, one where you slap on an RFID tag and remove the barcode whenever a material is returned (admittedly I suspect that'd delay returns a bit, and depending on how the barcode is attached removing it might not be great for the material, my library had some paperbacks where the barcode was attached in a way that it would damage the material to remove it) not a flawless system since material that is rarely checked out wouldn't get dealt with without seeking it out, and i'd bet on other issues too.
Doing it as a gradual thing would mean keeping both systems up for an extended time, and having to have all check-outs processed by a staff person, since I'd not want to think about having patrons having to separate their books each time and going through two self-check-out procedures until the conversion was over; the patron frustration levels would go through the roof if doing self check-out that way.
One it's done, there's no need to remove the existing barcodes form the books, other than aesthetics. They don't interfere with the RFID system in any way. You just don't add them to new acquisitions.
however it's handled though I definitely think such a system would be really nice, and I wonder if you could make use of the RFID tags in some manner to make finding the physical material easier (my brain goes towards the idea of a light on the shelf that can be toggled on if the tag is close and it's being looked for)
A functioning RFID system allows someone with what's effectively a hand scanner to walk down the rows of shelves and have it ping when they get within a certain distance of the proper RFID tag.
That's the major reason they were invented, aside from the information storage aspect.A lazyish thing to do would be stroll down the aisle, and when it pinged place a slip of paper between two books at that point, keep strolling until the RFID tag was no longer detected, mark that location, then eyeball the halfway point between the two and look there for the requested book; that'd automatically account for items that were out of order on the shelves. A portable scanner shouldn't have that great a range, so the distance between the two slips of paper wouldn't be that great.
Or just pull a book slightly forward as the marker, and shove them back when you are done.You'd still need to glance at the call numbers to determine which shelf you want to start looking at first, on the presumption that it was shelved properly, but you'd know that if it wasn't on that shelf, looking at shelves above or below would pay off.
Because it pinged, after all.
It's there.
Just hope it didn't get shoved behind another book, but you'd still be able to triangulate where on the shelves it was and start pulling bunches of books out to look behind... -
@piisfun @redrocket @Weasalopes it becomes even more complicated when you are an independent library part of a consortium. You need to convince the management of the other libraries, who have different funding and staffing levels, to agree to temporarily suspend service while you migrate from barcode only to RFID.
I think RFID is a really cool concept. In a large system like NYPL with a single entity managing multiple locations, it can save a ton on labor costs over the long term. It allows for automatic book sorting, streamlines inventories and makes it easier to locate missing/misfiled books.
The cost/time saving of sorting means you need less employees to effectively serve more physical branches.
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@salientmind said in Library Trivia (from Bookworm Discussion):
@piisfun @redrocket @Weasalopes it becomes even more complicated when you are an independent library part of a consortium. You need to convince the management of the other libraries, who have different funding and staffing levels, to agree to temporarily suspend service while you migrate from barcode only to RFID.
I think RFID is a really cool concept. In a large system like NYPL with a single entity managing multiple locations, it can save a ton on labor costs over the long term. It allows for automatic book sorting, streamlines inventories and makes it easier to locate missing/misfiled books.
The cost/time saving of sorting means you need less employees to effectively serve more physical branches.
Having worked at The Chicago Public Library for six years (1988-1994), which at the time had 88 branch libraries, two regional libraries north and south, and then the main library downtown...
This would be a godsend.
Logistically...
Rolling implementation would be the only way to go.
You shut down a branch, send in the conversion crew, they do their job, and move on to the next branch on their list and the branch reopens.
Depending upon the crew, most branches could be processed in a couple of days, max.
The regional libraries just a tad longer... they are considerably larger.HWLC?
Oof.
The Harold Washington Library Center would best be done a subject department at a time; a floor by floor matter.
There'd be the added logistical problem of central escalators through all the public access floors; you'd either shut down the ones accessing the floor currently undergoing conversion, or need to have barricades in place to restrain patrons doing anything other than shifting to the escalator moving to the next floor. There are elevators, four of them public access, running the height of the building, if my memory serves me right.
Plus... the design is such that all patrons are supposed to be funneled through the Third Floor prior to going on to the subject collections, as the General Reference Desk is placed there. Circulation and Newspapers as well.
And HWLC is open seven days a week, so there isn't any scheduled down time that could be worked into this other than when the library is closed at night.There'd be parallel systems running for a bit until it was all done.
In the end, it'd be well worth it, if nothing else for finally completing cleaning up the holdings database.
Anything that cleaned up the holdings records would be worth it, anything at all.
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@weasalopes
out of date records sound like they're a bane no matter where you go or your relation to the library. even my local library has tons of out of date records and they handle only a few hundred-thousand materials, I can hardly imagine the mess in a truly massive library like those you've worked in, let alone the difficulty in cleaning it up. -
@redrocketgame said in Library Trivia (from Bookworm Discussion):
@weasalopes
out of date records sound like they're a bane no matter where you go or your relation to the library. even my local library has tons of out of date records and they handle only a few hundred-thousand materials, I can hardly imagine the mess in a truly massive library like those you've worked in, let alone the difficulty in cleaning it up.It doesn't even have to be a library. Out of date or otherwise incorrect records are among the banes of accountants and inventory control specialists in any industry.
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So, after the last part, I feel like there is already an RFID like system in place. A super cool magic one. This means there may be a way for her to develop a magical database of books, a magical catalog of books and many other conveniences of modern libraries.
