If You Find An Author / Director is Morally Corrupt, Do You Still Continue Buying / Watching Their Work?
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@terrence said in If You Find An Author / Director is Morally Corrupt, Do You Still Continue Buying / Watching Their Work?:
Just as a small aside, there are aspects to the morally reprehensible stuff that can perpetuate bad messaging that leads to discrimination + harm mentally or otherwise for a group of people, and stuff with "good" messaging (again, based on certain popular moralities in the West)
There's a definite immorality in thinking this way, since with enough imagination you can adapt literally everything to this rhetoric which then used to attack and harass people of different culture. Which is exactly what's happening. Catherine's artificially cooked up "controversy" is just the latest in line and one of the more inane examples. All things are easily explainable with the character and in-story logic and isn't even there to offend anyone, it's ultimately up to the creator what life decisions his characters make even if you don't agree with them. But these people don't think, they just brand everything and anything they don't agree with as "transphobic" and use this convenient claim as a justification for the harassment and attacks on the personal life of the creators. Which basically leads to discrimination + harms mentally or otherwise said creators. Are these transgenders moral then? I'd say obviously not. If there are creators among them, by your logic you should definitely boycott their works, their way of life is morally reprehensible and constantly harms groups of people.
The line of thinking "I shall look for myself how morally acceptable the creator looks in this work" is extremely faulty in itself but if people understood that, I wouldn't have to post in this topic to begin with.
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@terrence said in If You Find An Author / Director is Morally Corrupt, Do You Still Continue Buying / Watching Their Work?:
I'm kind of curious if English voice actors get royalties for roles in games and anime?
I'm not sure about anime (I don't think they do), but video game voice actors did not get royalties until they went on strike for around a year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_video_game_voice_actor_strike) until game studios agreed to pay royalties.
EDIT: My mistake, the result of the strike was a new agreement that still does NOT include residuals, but some non-AAA studios did agree to pay residuals.
Reaction to the strike was mixed, because nobody else involved in making games (such as artists and programmers) get royalties. I may be biased as a software developer, but I don't think it's right for voice actors who show up at the tail end of a project and do a few hours of work in a booth to get royalties when the people who actually make the game put in a hundred times as much time and effort and get nothing. You can have a game without voice actors. Many games don't have them. You can't have a game without programmers and artists.
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Whelp, an author got in trouble on social media again. This time for badmouthing their illustrator.
https://bookwalker.jp/debefee92f-35e0-45e9-864a-c30bc53e4043/?acode=WpfPW3yk
This LN just got cancelled. Apparently the author said shitty things about the illustrator on Twitter
https://twitter.com/frog_kun/status/1099154185768001538?s=17So it seems that the illustrator was saying generally "It's boring to only draw 'safe' ero images that don't go all the way" and the author thought this meant "The book itself is boring" https://twitter.com/frog_kun/status/1099159852369162241?s=17
Obviously a shitty situation for fans of the work and for the folks involved in production.
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Ouch, for a few scared moments I thought the one from the same author, the one with the elf girl and the behemoth cat, was the casualty, this one;
https://forums.j-novel.club/topic/1711/s-rank-monster-no-behemoth-dakedo-neko-to-machigawarete-elf-musume-no-pet-toshite-kurashitemasu-i-m-an-s-rank-behemoth-monster-but-i-m-living-as-a-pet-of-an-elf-girl
...but fortunately that one has different illustrator.So it seems that the illustrator was saying generally "It's boring to only draw 'safe' ero images that don't go all the way" and the author thought this meant "The book itself is boring"
Read straight, that seems an extremely silly reason to throw a fit, huh?
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@novurdim When beleaguered anime directors start having the insanely high suicide rate that transgendered teens do (among teens transgendered males have the highest suicide rate), I suspect the viewpoint will change.
If transgendered voices seem shrill at times take a look at how long they’ve been effectively shit on by society. If it were me, I’d be a little shrill too. Losing an anime you like is nothing compared to losing a friend to suicide.
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@the-green-death said in If You Find An Author / Director is Morally Corrupt, Do You Still Continue Buying / Watching Their Work?:
When beleaguered anime directors start having the insanely high suicide rate that transgendered teens do (among teens transgendered males have the highest suicide rate), I suspect the viewpoint will change.
Well, I'm already pro-anime and anti-harassment so I suspect my won't. But unfortunately until some real tragedy happens in the game or anime work sphere, all these baseless pseudo-outrages, harassments and mob attacks will just be glossed over. Either way, being inadequate isn't justifiable because someone lost a friend, don't attack the outsiders and defenceless just because you don't think you are able to fight the real problems. This way they are only making it much worse and turn the priorly neutral crowd against themselves.
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For me, it depends.
I will watch, play or read some works with corrupt creators, depending on how strongly I am affected by their dark side.
Heck, my cousin probably has no idea about the Nobuhiro Watsuki disaster, so I bought him one of the live-action movies, as I just can't tell him the truth. It would break his heart.
If a creator is a bigot to innocent minorities I am part of, my consumption of their work is guaranteed to at least decrease, but not guaranteed to fully stop. -
Act-Age writer allegedly arrested for committing an "indecent act" in public towards girls.
I think many folks are assuming it'll get canned, and those that haven't started it seem content to let this series go for now. I'll probably do the same (I would wonder if the original writer would still get royalties or any kind of compensation for buying the volumes they worked on and future stuff should a new writer get hired, so I probably will still skip it if I can't get that assurance even though I heard great things about it).
Since the manga artist only did the art, maybe they could sign on for series where an artist is needed? I hope the artist catches on to some other projects (be it manga, LN, or some other field) with their talent.
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since this topic bubbled back up in my feed - I took the time to re-read my posts and reflect, also to take in the context of the apparent censorship (maybe?) of certain LNs in the Kindle marketplace, and changing attitudes in my part of the world. I still stand by pretty much everything I said. I can't judge easily what 'morally corrupt' is, and reading works by (and about) folks with/from different political viewpoints/cultural backgrounds is a healthy way to examine my own biases/ 'check' myself so to speak. Any serious student of mid 20th century history probably has/should read Mein Kampf. Probably the defining example of a work written by a morally corrupt individual. (and relevant to this conversation, the author/his descendants / and whomever may by sympathetic to his views don't benefit from royalties etc. from that particular book) I realize that I'm slightly going of on a tangent here as most of the discussion in the thread seems to be about specific authors/VA's/directors/artists that get caught doing/saying stuff ---and therefore should a consumer not consume work tied to the offenders?
it seems to me to boil down to two main questions:- can you separate the 'art' from 'the artist'? i.e. should one judge the merit of a work independently from what you know/find out about about a behavior of a creator?
- what is an appropriate response once that decision is made, and a judgement either is made or one abstains from making a judgement?
for the former question- for me at least (relevant to LNs/Anime/Manga because that's the forum we are in here) it's easy to separate as I don't know anything about who the creators are (in Japan) I pretty much am forced to judge a book solely by its contents. (and once I know a creator is a bad egg, I can't help but to 'read in' the work whatever evil they did. The 'tone' will be changed) For publishers/businesses they must assume that consumers will conflate art/artist/publisher (and that the reputation of the creator will effect the reputation of a publisher etc.)
for the latter. companies (Publishers, amazon. etc.) should have known/public standards, and they should be enforced fairly. Consumers should have access to information to make decisions. My personal opinion is that there is a 'line', and I can't spend money supporting those that cross it(especially when there are so many other choices) weather that is a author, or a company
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This is all over Kevin Spacey thing again. Artists can be evil people. However that doesnt(shouldnt) diminish their work. I wouldnt want to stay in the same room with those ppl but that doesnt mean i shouldnt watch good movie, anime, etc. Also why 2018 post pop-up again?
But that doesnt mean i dont want to cancel their shows. These people shouldnt get a high pay job again but i can watch, read their old works.
8 parts, 8 weeks to read a book, than binge read the same book within' 2 hours again.
Myne: Did we deceived him?
Ferdinand: Indeed we did.
Myne: *surprised myneface -
@hopebestman It popped up because of the Act-Age story writer (not artist) getting arrested this morning due to molesting two middle school girls, which he has admitted to. Scroll up to Terrence’s post just two comments ago.
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i see, then send that guy to the prison, dont give new job but still if possible and if its good, you can read his stuff, is my opinion.
Thanks for the info.
8 parts, 8 weeks to read a book, than binge read the same book within' 2 hours again.
Myne: Did we deceived him?
Ferdinand: Indeed we did.
Myne: *surprised myneface -
@hopebestman said in If You Find An Author / Director is Morally Corrupt, Do You Still Continue Buying / Watching Their Work?:
This is all over Kevin Spacey thing again. Artists can be evil people. However, that doesn't(shouldn't) diminish their work.
Or Jewwario or many other people that have become public and found themselves judged by beings with fake morals and pretended goodness on them (Yes, to me EVERYONE is guilty before proven actually innocent). This said, those are my exact feelings too
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@hopebestman said in If You Find An Author / Director is Morally Corrupt, Do You Still Continue Buying / Watching Their Work?:
i see, then send that guy to the prison, dont give new job but still if possible and if its good, you can read his stuff, is my opinion.
Well, I'll put it this way...
Act-Age is a story about a 'young hotshot director' who 'just really wants to work with' the teenage heroine. Quoting a review: 'Fortunately she has director Kuroyama, who does some questionable stuff here (please do not kidnap girls off the street)'
The writer was just arrested for molesting middle-school girls.
Um.
There's no way in hell I can separate the art from the artist. Nor do I want to.
...Cats are the proof of a higher purpose to the universe.
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@Travis-Butler Then don't support it, it's on a case by case basis, no one but me will think less of you (If only because it's the very first time I've ever seen you...)
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@Travis-Butler I said in my first comment. Kevin Spacey(we know what he did), shouldnt get a new job but i still enjoy his old movies.
8 parts, 8 weeks to read a book, than binge read the same book within' 2 hours again.
Myne: Did we deceived him?
Ferdinand: Indeed we did.
Myne: *surprised myneface -
@hopebestman said in If You Find An Author / Director is Morally Corrupt, Do You Still Continue Buying / Watching Their Work?:
@Travis-Butler I said in my first comment. Kevin Spacey(we know what he did), shouldnt get a new job but i still enjoy his old movies.
Er.
The manga apparently has a young hotshot creator showing an extremely intense interest in a teenage girl, to the point of kidnapping them off the street.
The creator of that manga was just arrested for (and admitted to) molesting a teenage girl.
It's very, very hard not to draw a line directly between these two things. The fact that the author molested a teenage girl is going to change the way I view the story he wrote, that features a creator about the same age showing a strong interest in a teenage girl.
...Cats are the proof of a higher purpose to the universe.
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@Travis-Butler , i cant blame or say anything in that way. Its your point of view. Which has REALLY good points. I dont care that series so i cant say for myself about that guy but if it was writer about Realist Hero or something, i still would keep reading that series.
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@hopebestman Agree. If an author penned a story I greatly enjoyed, but later that same author ascended to a position of a political leader who waged war and committed genocide and other crimes against humanity, I'd still enjoy it afterwards despite what I personally may feel about that person.
For me, the author is detached from the story, whether the story draws from his/her own life or not.
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For me I take it as a case-by-case basis. That's how I think you have to approach these things. I think blanket statements are not really helpful and I'm not sure I want to limit what I read by that. There is a significant difference between whether a creator has said something reprehensible or whether they've done something heinous. But if you want to boil down my thoughts on this topic it would be this, You can decide that you want to read a story regardless of the author and who they are as a person and what they've done, at the same time you have to, at least in a sense, accept (or maybe a better way of putting it would be acknowledge) that the thing you are reading was created by someone who did or said things that you find reprehensible.
As for this particular case, I am seriously pissed off. Not only was the thing this person did exceedingly horrible, but it adds extra baggage to a series that I just started and was really enjoying. Having just bought a copy of volume one I'm now questioning whether I want to continue buying the series. And if the series is going to be cancelled due to his horrible Acts then I'm not sure I want to continue buying a series if it's going to stop without coming to a fulfilling conclusion. All these things really frustrate me.
