How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry
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@smashman42 said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
The Shonen Jump app is pretty good now, but it needed to be like that 5-8 years ago or whenever Crunchyroll went legit. Hell, they still have heaps of series with the first three chapters available, then a fifty to a hundred or so chapter gap, then the most recent stuff unlocked. All the new customers then get forced to either pirate or pony up heaps of cash to catch up. Kinda similar to here with the prepubs, but LNs are more niche compared to manga & the English market is comparatively years behind anime & manga, or at least that's how it seems to me.
@hamsterexastris said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
"Heaps of series"? Just four, according to their site. (I'm not going to click through all 96 series to confirm that count.)
Me gets exited and clicks on the link!
Scroll scroll scroll...CONTENT NOT AVAILABLE
Thank you for your interest in Shonen Jump! Unfortunately this content is not available in your location.
The offer is available in the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Ireland, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, the Philippines, Singapore, and India!Me gets depressed and flips a table. Back to reading fan translation of Yobidasareta Satsuriku-sha, because its kinda fun.
P.S. CR did something similar with Domestic Girlfriend. They started to simulpublish it and later on filled the gap from chapter 1 and upward. I was actually half expecting j-novel to do the same with their licensed manga, imagine how disappointed I was when they started at chapter 1.
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@zing Bummer about being region screwed :(
I still expect to be region screwed all the time cause of how it used to be, but realistically Australia has been pretty good for several years now
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Hum, my experience so far : i have almost 300 ebook on my kindle. bought them on amazon. a good 100+ are LN. Probably more than 150 actually. a great deal of them are actually J-novel LN.
I love webnovel fan translation. I tried LN fan translation, mostly out of frustration because i didn't want to wait months for the officiel translation to be available on amazon. Well... NOPE ! i don't know if i was out of luck or anything but pro translator are, well, pro.
There is a real added value here. It's not like there was a choice between buying the book or getting the exact same content for free. it's a choice between pro translation and fan translation. i gladly pay for the pro translation.
That's my first argument.
The second argument being extremly simple : kindle.
I don't want to read book on my computer. When i do it, i read webnovel. Otherwise it's LN on my kindle. And amazon being amazon, i have to pay for it. so i pay ;) -
@ker2x said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
The second argument being extremly simple : kindle.
I don't want to read book on my computer. When i do it, i read webnovel. Otherwise it's LN on my kindle. And amazon being amazon, i have to pay for it. so i pay ;)I always had trouble finding the book I want to read on amazon kindle, especially the ones from yen press. But bookwalker is pretty awesome in that regard.
https://global.bookwalker.jp/ -
@smashman42 said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
The Shonen Jump app is pretty good now, but it needed to be like that 5-8 years ago or whenever Crunchyroll went legit. Hell, they still have heaps of series with the first three chapters available, then a fifty to a hundred or so chapter gap, then the most recent stuff unlocked. All the new customers then get forced to either pirate or pony up heaps of cash to catch up. Kinda similar to here with the prepubs, but LNs are more niche compared to manga & the English market is comparatively years behind anime & manga, or at least that's how it seems to me.
Here we have the escape hatch of catch-up months for LNs though. I know that if I wait long enough I'll probably get a catch-up month for Grimgar so I can see whether or not I like it enough to buy the LNs.
I just checked and I've bought 9 series based on catch-up months and another 6 from reading prepubs.
Catch up months work great for getting me hooked on another series :)
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@harmlessdave said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
I just checked and I've bought 9 series based on catch-up months and another 6 from reading prepubs.
I thought it prompted me to buy more, but double checking it is only Arifureta (and Zero) and Clockwork Planet for me so far, though I bought the thus far unlocked so 'always on catch up' Rokujouma as well. (I can't remember if Dendro was a catch up inspired one as well or if I took the chance on V1 and then bought the rest)
I wonder if Sam does notice any movement either way of purchases of stuff put on catch up?
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@zing said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
@ker2x said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
The second argument being extremly simple : kindle.
I don't want to read book on my computer. When i do it, i read webnovel. Otherwise it's LN on my kindle. And amazon being amazon, i have to pay for it. so i pay ;)I always had trouble finding the book I want to read on amazon kindle, especially the ones from yen press. But bookwalker is pretty awesome in that regard.
https://global.bookwalker.jp/i didn't know about this website. thx :)
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I was surprised when a well-known scanlation site decided to turn everything off and go “legit” at the drop of a hat. Their reasoning was that scanlations and fan translations hurt the Japanese authors and the industry and that they would no longer be a part of it. They even went so far as to rebrand themselves with a new site that is to say the least a huge disappointment from what they used to be. So, is it really wrong for people to scanlate or fan-translate a series?
For me personally I think that they help get the authors works to readers that would never have known about them and maybe even get an official license where there may not have been one generating more revenue for the industry and the authors as well. Let’s face it, a large percentage of the work made in Japan is never licensed outside of Japan. So’ if it’s not licensed where is the loss?
What do you think? Is it a good or bad thing? Write or wrong? It’s a conundrum, that much I’m certain of.
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My stance is that the relationship is complicated.
- Does it hurt the industry monetarily?
- Yes
- Does it provide something that the industry cannot?
- Yes. The shear volume of works could not possibly be handled legitimately.
- WN's don't ususaly get official translations.
- Should it be restricted, or completely shut down?
- Standard restrictions should apply, such as DMCA laws.
- Shutting it down entirely would probably be detrimental to the official industry.
Basically, I believe that for WN's, it should be allowed as long as the translator does not attempt to monetize it. If they do monetize, that is a whole different issue.
Also, they absolutely need to promote the original author, since that is really the only gain the author is getting.For LN's, where an unofficial translation will in fact hurt the industry if it get picked up, I believe that any fan translator should be required to stop updating once an official translation is licensed (yes, even if it is SOL Press), and to take it down if a DMCA is issued.
Green's Theorem
- Does it hurt the industry monetarily?
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@lighthawk96 I don't know what you're trying to say with that example? It's like saying "this person I know used to do graffiti, but then they decided to stop, what's up with that?" Vandalizing is against the law. Fan translations are also against the law. If they want to stop, well, good for them.
As far as "they get exposure!!!", that's the big scam of the creative world. Exposure doesn't pay bills, exposure doesn't put food on the table. English-speaking people liking someone's unofficially translated Japanese novel is not going to help that person get paid more in Japan, especially when it's being posted for free and people reading it don't have to buy their books anymore.
Fan translations might have been good in the past, since they highlighted a business opportunity that was being overlooked; there was a demand for a type of product and little to no supply. However, these days we have plenty of companies looking into translating light novels and Japanese media in general. There's no more need for fan translations to "expose" something anymore.
So’ if it’s not licensed where is the loss?
Here's an example of something that was not licensed and a fan translation created a barrier to it getting licensed: https://curiouscat.me/jnovelclub/post/584251560
EDIT: I should note that JNC has plenty of examples of a series that was in fact fan translated, but it was still licensed and sells fine. However, those don't apply to all cases, so it's not like you can guarantee that you'll do zero harm to a series by fan translating it.
Whoever said nothing's impossible never tried slamming a revolving door.
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If an amateur translator only put up the first chapter of a series, along with links to the original works and a blurb about why it should be licensed and the market, the exposure argument might hold water. That would basically be free advertising. More than that and they might risk filling the market with a low-cost alternative that a professional company couldn’t really compete with in terms of overhead.
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I was really excited about J-Novel picking up Duke's Daughter and A Wild Last Boss Appeared because I was familiar with the fan translations of the Web Novels -- I know that's only a personal anecdote, but I think the logic checks out in general. (Though Web Novels should also be considered a completely different kettle to begin with.)
I never would have gotten into Anime or Japanese media without the fan translations, though, so that feels a bit hypocritical to say too.
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@piisfun
That is kinda what I was getting at. Most fan translations are not all that great, very few are in fact. All I was really saying is that there is an appetite out there for this stuff and the industry, while growing, can't feed it fast enough. Why?Translation times between companies vary. JNC translates at a grueling pace but at the same time let their customers read weekly releases of the translated works. I think this model is the best of both worlds in that you get your appetite saited everyweek instead of waiting months on end for the next installment of a series.
I was just trying to say that the reality of the situation is that most of the works made in Japan will never make it out of Japan. Some people feel that this is the way it should be. I'm not one of them. I would like more works to make their way over here and be licensed and distributed. But let's face it, there is way more demand than supply.
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Most english speakers don't know those original material exist until its fan translated. If it merely become licensed right away, I'm willing to bet their sales would be pretty low, outside of the top 10 material. I think fan translation help. It requires anime/manga fan translation to introduce ppl to the material for them to seek light novel
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I wouldn't know that there was an English light novel market if it wasn't for me to trying to find more information on the Mushoku Tensei manga and stumbling across the fan translation of the web novel on Baka-Tsuki.
This got me reading WN's/LN's as i tried to find more series I liked.
Eventually stumbled across bookwalker and found there were more volumes/series and better translations and it went from there.Now I've spent well more than $10000 on LN's, don't know if would have been the same if I didn't stumble across Baka-Tsuki all those years ago. But I can definatly say that the fan translations got me in to reading LN's and got me wanting more.
I think fan translations have a place, defiantly for series that don't have an official English release. A few of my favourite series like Zero no Tsukaima, Seirei Tsukai no Blade Dance, Shinmai Maou no Keiyakusha, etc, have basically no chance of getting licenced so at least there is somewhere where we can read them.
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@Ran I’m right there with you on Wild Last Boss. I also just found out that one I thought had no real hope of getting an official translation has been licensed (and bought the first volume of My Dress-Up Darling). There’s definitely a disconnect between my general view of the situation and my specific behaviors. But at least as far as fair use goes, I’m reasonably confident that model would pass muster.
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@Timmaaah
I picked up on light novel's much in the same way. I came across the Death March manga which had I think 4 chapters translated at the time. I wanted more so I found the translation of the web novel and binge read all of it. In fact, one of the series that I suggested JNC license, "The Saint's Magic Power Is Omnipotent" was licensed by Seven seas. I've read all of the fan translation and all of the scanlation of the manga and will still buy both when they are released. Why? Because I like the series and want to read the official translation and support the industry the best I can. Simple as that. -
@Ran said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
I was really excited about J-Novel picking up Duke's Daughter and A Wild Last Boss Appeared because I was familiar with the fan translations of the Web Novels -- I know that's only a personal anecdote, but I think the logic checks out in general. (Though Web Novels should also be considered a completely different kettle to begin with.)
I never would have gotten into Anime or Japanese media without the fan translations, though, so that feels a bit hypocritical to say too.
How long ago was that? A bit of anime besides DBZ and Robotech such as Project A-ko started showing up on cable TV in the '90s, and there was a lot out on VHS then too. Tokyopop started their manga line in 2002. I'm not sure when the LN boom hit.
I think we're long past the early days when exposure was necessary to let people know that the material exists and is good.
I do like @EmpactWB 's idea of fan translations that give just a taste and then stop. That seems closer to ethical exposure than taking a writer's entire series without their consent.
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@myskaros said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
Fan translations might have been good in the past, since they highlighted a business opportunity that was being overlooked; there was a demand for a type of product and little to no supply. However, these days we have plenty of companies looking into translating light novels and Japanese media in general. There's no more need for fan translations to "expose" something anymore.
The amount of light & web novels in Japan far surpasses the amount that can or will be translated by companies at any point. After all, companies are trying to make a lot of money by selling these translations.
Why have these plenty of companies not licensed Death Mage Who Doesn’t Want a Fourth Time yet?
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@Zing said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
The amount of light & web novels in Japan far surpasses the amount that can or will be translated by companies at any point. After all, companies are trying to make a lot of money by selling these translations.
That doesn't justify stealing the works of these authors and publishing them without their permission.
Why have these plenty of companies not licensed Death Mage Who Doesn’t Want a Fourth Time yet?
Maybe because the demand for it is lower than you think? Maybe the content isn't appealing to any of the localization companies? Maybe the publisher or author either doesn't want it to be published in English, or is demanding too much money for it. Maybe it's another reason entirely. But I can guarantee you it's not because no one knows about it or has heard that there are people who want it, thus rendering the "exposure" argument moot.
