What makes a "good" or "bad" anime in your opinion? Which anime do you think should get a second season or more?
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Since this topic is coming up in "By the Grace of the God's" anime I thought that it might be a good idea to make this a topic. So, what makes a "good" or "bad" anime? There are varying opinions on this so I thought people would like to talk about it under it's own topic.
For me, I really just like seeing the characters of the stories I love come to life. As long as it flows good, has good voice casting, good animation, and hits all the major plot points then I'm good. And I find that to be true for most anime. I do feel that some series don't get the love that they deserve and should get more than one season, but sadly for the most part that doesn't happen often.
Some series that I would like to have a second season would be "Smartphone" and "Death March". These are two of my all time favorites and I think they were definitely worthy of a second season. "Slime" and "Shield Hero" thankfully are getting second and even third seasons, so I'm definitely happy there.
Some series that surprised me that got a second season were "Bakarina" and, you guessed it, "Arifureta". While "Bakarina" wasn't bad, I personally didn't feel that there would be much more to gain in a second season of the anime. The first one was kinda put together in a sort of haphazard sort of way that didn't do much for me. "Arifureta" was a sin on the anime community. It was so terrible that when I saw that it was going to get a second season I was utterly speechless. It was so terrible and got so many bad reviews I just don't understand the thinking the producers had in this decision. And let's not forget that the original version was scrapped when it was near completion and we never got to see any of it. What we got was the low budget aftermath due to the cancelation of the first incarnation which I would almost assume had more budget and was much, much better.
As far as voice acting is concerned, I think the Japanese do a pretty good job all the time. Funimation has not been impressing me here as of late and hasn't for a while now. They have a few series where hey put in the effort, but for the most part it's just regurgitation of product. Crunchyroll seems to be trying to do a better job of voice casting so maybe there is hope. I know they had a partnership with Funimation for a while but I think they are doing their own thing now and that might be for the best.
But for me, I don't expect an epic production every time I sit down to enjoy an anime, but I do expect that certain respect be paid to the story and it's content to live up to it's original roots. Some anime I expect more from. "Realist Hero" is going to be one for sure and hopefully I will not be disappointed there. I guess time will tell.
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@lighthawk96 said in What makes a "good" or "bad" anime in your opinion? Which anime do you think should get a second season or more?:
"Slime" and "Shield Hero" thankfully are getting second and even third seasons, so I'm definitely happy there.
I think I've mentioned this on the forums before, but I've been sorely disappointed in how the Shield Hero LN turned out, and I've been wondering if they are going to attempt to 'fix' the LN with the anime or try to match it. There is a skeleton of a good story there, but it really focused on the wrong things (e.g. making a harem and almost solely focusing on how much everyone loves naofumi vs making them interesting and likeable characters who also like him, pushing raphtalia and filo out of the story, making everything fixed through OP deus ex machnica powers etc etc). Given the abridged nature of anime, I think they can boil down the characters to what makes them interesting and with so much extra cut out a lot of the annoying repetion of the LN can really be streamlined.
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For me, "good" (insert media here) tells a story, without having to rely upon some other media to fill in the blanks. Some of my favorites are based on games I never played, but have a complete story arc (or more than one). Clannad, Kanon, and similar.
Others, such as Ai Yori Aoshi, Toradora, and such, where I saw the anime first, then got in to the books associated with them, are good in that they really didn't spoil the book experience.
The various parts of To Love-ru follow the graphic novels very closely, to the point that you don't have to have the subtitles as long as you have read the fan translations or the official English books.
Animes based on 4-koma have a disadvantage for me, unless the original 4-koma advanced a over-arching story. I like Wagnaria and Place to Place because they do advance a story.
Then there are the not-so-good, but not "bad". Smartphone never really puts a story together in the anime. Lots of good scenes from which you could built something better, but... even without reading the novel, you can see the plot holes. With reading the novel, it seems even worse.
There is some where the translation is a handicap. Even before I got the manga and now the novels, High School DxD is better with subtitles than the Funimation dub. The dub makes you wonder why any of the girls would put up with Issei, let along LIKE him.
I really don't have any "bad" anime collection, because I only buy what I like. Maybe it's also because I don't have a lot of stuff that I can compare to the "original material".
But, as more stuff that I've read is going to show up as anime, that may change. Other than Arifureta, I do plan on buying such stuff as it becomes available.
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I think it depends how you're defining "good". There are plenty of anime I've watched and thought were good, but genre plays a big role. I wouldn't judge Fruits Basket to the same standards as Paprika nor I would a judge Bookworm to the same standards that I judge Promare. These are totally different kinds of narratives, with there own tonal atmosphere, tropes and pacing. So the question as you put it @lighthawk96 is too broad, but I will endeavor to answer it the best that I can.
Genres must be evaluated by their conventions.
When I watching a romance, it should be making me go kyaa and squee while making my heart go doki doki. When I'm watching comedy it needs to make me laugh or at least smile. If I'm going to watch something sorrowful, it better make me cry buckets by the end (which is not a difficult task in any case, so if I didn't then someone really messed up). If I'm watching a Shonen action series, I should feel it in my bones when the hero gets up after being knocked down and defeats the villain with the power of friendship or whatever. Whatever the genre I'm looking for must hit the right notes. Whether formulaic or subverted all the beats must be there in harmony. In effect, [and art is strongly, some would mostly about effect] it must make me feel something. I can forgive problems in plotting if it takes me on the emotional dance I was looking for. There is a musicality to all entertainment, and I will go along for the ride as long it strikes the right chords.
The technical merits must reach at an adequate level; it must look good and it must sound good. I am not hard to please, but it must be decent enough. Naturally the better these thing are, the more likely I am to remember an rewatch it. I have enjoyed the Grace of Gods anime so far, but it is highly unlikely that I will ever watch it again.
Speaking of which, if a LN or manga I like is going to adapted into an anime it must be done with consideration to the source material. Any adaptation to TV or movie must be faithful to the source material both in spirit and in flesh. A coming-of-age story of outsiders finding a place in the world for themselves, must preserve the essential narrative beats to that particular story. That is not to say that nothing is allowed to be cut, after all there is only so much screen-time, but the core of the story, what makes that story unique from the ten, or hundred, or thousand other stories like it must be kept! This applies not just to anime but to the entire field of adapting to a visual-audio medium! Unfortunately this is not always the case. I'm sure we can all think of a example where the producers did not, as the saying goes, 'do the story justice'. I could go off here on a rant about how this is exacerbated by the committee system in the midst of late-stage capitalism, but I haven't had nearly enough wine to make that happen.
So to be "good" anime must be technically competent and in tune with the feelings it wants to give while treating its story with at least a modicum of care. There are some story subgenres that I have tired of, most harems, for instance are too, too formulaic without any new to add to the genre, and I can get just as much enjoyment of a five minute clip of one of those shows as I could from a full episode, so I've stopped watching those shows. On the other, the are stories that I never get tired of, like yuri. I do like the comfort of formulas sometimes, but I have my limits. One thing I love about anime as a medium is it offers such wondrously original stories that I wouldn't find anywhere else on the one hand, while on the other serving out perfectly formulaic comfort food, for whenever I'm n the mood for some stupid fun.
However, I have yet to touch on the most important thing that makes an anime "good", which stems from the fact that anime is entertainment. Essentially, it has to be enjoyable. If I'm not enjoying myself then it's not good. This is not to say it has to be wholly pleasant, some of the greater anime I've seen have made gone through unpleasant turmoil with feelings of terror or intense sorrow, but at the other end I enjoyed having experienced the story. As the Green Day song goes, "For what it's worth it was worth all the while". That is the measure of a not just good, but a great anime.
Anime is art, not always great art, but art all the same. Art is an experience. Fundamentally, at its most basic level, no matter what form it takes, that is what art is; the experience of experiencing a particular piece of art. That is what makes an anime "good" or "bad", your experience of it! It's a simple as that. If the experience was worth it then it was good. No matter what technical heights it might have reached or how well the story is plotted, if you don't have a good experience of it, you won't think an anime is "good". [Of course, that does not mean there are not anime that are objectively beautiful or of higher worth, there some people who do not like Land of the Lustrous and I respect their opinion even though I question their taste in being unable to appreciate its beauty, and who would deny that Violet Evergarden is bewitching and magnificent]
You might think that this is an overly philosophical way of thinking about it, but philosophy is part of the bedrock of all civilization, of human thought, as Rene Descartes famous said "cogito, ergo sum"! No discussion of art is complete without the application of philosophy. But I digress, art is objectively subjective, so as a form of art, anime cannot help but be that. We as a community can decide to value certain things, and give more worth to a thoughtful adaptation than a rushed cash-grab; but at the end of the day, it is the experience that matter most.Anyways I have good on long enough. I have many thoughts on this topic, I have hope to capture, at least some of them here. I sincerely hope I didn't bore you, and I look forward to what the rest of you have to say.
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1)how the story is introduced to us( 1st three episodes rule)
2) every Characters framework of psychology, physical and mental capacity and stuff like powers (hopefully being consistent throughout the story)
3)the level of socio-economics, politics and even technology and magic/quirk/ powers must be lined out with strick reasoning and the author be strict with himself when using them
4) every arc or episode leaving is with an idea to think about or debate inwardly( this is just a personal preference. I tend to remember those kinda anime more than the rest)
5) Attention to detail in VA dialogues, phasing
6) my favourite is the desire to revisit an anime and watch it again and again( i tend to see many anime that are interesting and entertaining but rarely a title with 'revisitability')
** Kept it short cuz i think many will have criticisms on my weird list -
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It depends on the genre, novel/anime itself and etc.
For example my issues with BtGotG's anime;
CGI, story telling, and characterisation.
For example in Overlord, CGI in action was so bad it was disgusting. But as a whole anime, it was really good. Character arts, story telling, even voice acting. So that small problem didnt became too big of a issue.
Second is story telling; Well this one is biased cuz i read the novel but they made some changes when they do anime which was bad, they have to skip some stuff cuz of time which i can understand but you cant skip the important stuff, which they do couple times. They are rushing the anime so much, i cant believe it!
I know that the girl had small crush to Ryoma but was it really like that obvious? Also we know that Ryoma was getting exited but he was saying "dude you are 40, cuz be cool. This is a kid you are dealing with" all the time but why we dont hear that thought of process?
I think channels buy some of the animes for time killing. They just say "hey, we have X amount of budget, pick an anime and make it 13 ep, 25 ep so that we can fill the empty air space". Thats it. No need quality...
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@lighthawk96 said in What makes a "good" or "bad" anime in your opinion? Which anime do you think should get a second season or more?:
Some series that I would like to have a second season would be "Smartphone" and "Death March". These are two of my all time favorites and I think they were definitely worthy of a second season. "Slime" and "Shield Hero" thankfully are getting second and even third seasons, so I'm definitely happy there.
I love the Smartphone and Death March LNs, but their anime adaptations were really mediocre at best. Similar with Infinite Dendrogram, albeit this one broke into an upper mid-tier. I'd totally appreciate a second season for all these, as the coming events would be damn fun to watch animated.
Some series that surprised me that got a second season were "Bakarina" and, you guessed it, "Arifureta". While "Bakarina" wasn't bad, I personally didn't feel that there would be much more to gain in a second season of the anime.
I feel that, I totally feel that. The original incarnation of Bakarina actually ended there (the WN). It was only in the LN that the author actually expanded beyond her "doomed ending" at the graduation ceremony. The story doesn't grab me as a much as it did before that. I still like it but those first 2 volumes had a magic that the rest doesn't have. I could read back vol. 2 and cry again on A-chan bringing Katarina back from her slumber just like I did on my first read and on the anime, can't say the same about anything on the latter books.
"Arifureta" was a sin on the anime community. It was so terrible that when I saw that it was going to get a second season I was utterly speechless. It was so terrible and got so many bad reviews I just don't understand the thinking the producers had in this decision. And let's not forget that the original version was scrapped when it was near completion and we never got to see any of it. What we got was the low budget aftermath due to the cancelation of the first incarnation which I would almost assume had more budget and was much, much better.
Did you ever see the original character designs that looked like late 90s low budget anime?? I'm sure whatever was cooked up before, was even worse than what we got. And the producers decision was actually quite right, given how much it sold in Japan. They can get review bombed, as long as it sells, they'll make more of it. Stuff like Queen's Blade or Ikkitousen get universally panned by "critics" for the gratuitious fanservice but they sell well enough that they got multiple seasons and OVAs. Same goes with Hollywood, else Anderson and Bay wouldn't be in the business anymore, they might make shit, but if shit sells well, they are kings.
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Sorry for getting to this thread so late. @Lily-Garden Gave a very good general response that I don't think I can top. But I did want to make a few specific comments.
Anime is its own medium. It is well-suited for certain kinds of storytelling. I mostly look for an anime to tell a compelling story in a way that uses the strengths of the medium to maximum effect. Compared to many people, I think that my expectations tend to be very forgiving when watching an anime adaptation of a beloved story. Indeed, I've noticed that people get really upset when the anime makes changes to a story. But for me, I expect the anime to make changes... otherwise what is even the point? I've read (or can read) the LN, so please tell me something than can only be expressed through a visual medium. It's a bit like when I listen to a cover of a beloved song - I will be disappointed if it is too true to the original. After all, I can go back and listen to the original at any time. Instead, I want a cover artist to reinterpret the song for me. When done well, I can re-experience the joy hearing a beloved piece of music for the first time. I feel roughly the same about anime adaptations.
I get really annoyed by the "alpha geek" tendency within niche sub-cultures to hate everything that isn't obscure or old or original. Only the original version released 40 years ago is good enough for the alpha geek (and if the original isn't 40 years old yet, he will find it inferior to something that is). This individual will find glee in pointing out every single discrepancy between the versions. In my opinion, this person is missing the forest for the trees. He is so focused on tedious minutia, that he has lost the ability to enjoy the work as a whole.
One of my favorite recent examples is "Make My Abilities Average". The story in the anime was quite different from the LN. BUT! The story itself is not meant to be all that serious, and the anime added visual gags that were very much in the spirit of the series, but that could not have been made in a printed medium. I enjoyed that adaptation (at least the first half) very much.
Another thing to consider is people who are not familiar with the source material to begin with. For example, I found Arifureta through the anime. The story itself was so strong that it somehow shone through the terrible animation. After the second episode, I couldn't wait to see what happened next and gobbled up the LNs. Indeed, it wasn't until I went back and tried to re-watch the first couple episodes that I even realized how bad it was.
Anyway, there's probably more that I could say, but I will stop there for now.
