Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.
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I think @sevenseas is someone from 7S, and more than
just a random employee from how Sam replied directly to them on page 8.While I know they said that they are unable...wont?...go into specifics I just don't see how issues spanning multiple volumes over multiple series could be completely unrelated, much like @rsog412 said.
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@bartzbb said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:
@sevenseas
Not to be rude or anything but since this is the internet anyone can claim to be someone that they are notFor clarity, I can confirm that @sevenseas is in fact a representative of Seven Seas Entertainment.
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@sevenseas Sorry for the late response.
First of all, I want to say that I really appreciate Seven Seas working on resolving the issue. Thank you. Especially for the restoration work done on vol.1. I wish I could download it to my glossy first printing paperback.
There are still a few issues I know of in vol.2 and 3, but at this point it would be too close to nitpicking as all major problems I knew of were fixed.
And thank you for engaging in a conversation and sharing what you're allowed to despite the topic making people understandably heated up.I wanted to chime in to say that Seven Seas receives a lot of messages through our website's contact us form and even though you might not receive a reply to your message, one of Seven Seas' staff does read the emails and forwards the messages on to right team member in each imprint. If there is a correction needing to be made to a book, we keep a log of those and try to get them fixed for reprints.
I perfectly understand that most of incoming messages don't warrant a response, however, that mistake still being present even in the most recent update made me doubtful if those corrections are accepted at all.
I'll put it under the spoiler in case more direct approach would be more effective, maybe not in the next update, but eventually:
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@wellwisher I didn't eyeball any differences between the excerpt from the WN you posted and the LN. In particular it is still 剣神流の上級 for エリス and 水神流と北神流も上級 for パウロ.
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@bartzbb It doesn't even have to be "we actively did something wrong". It could also be "things went wrong, but it happened under our watch, so we still have to take responsibility". Primarily, the concern is that based on the statements I've seen (again, I don't claim to have read every statement Seven Seas released about this controversy), I haven't seen any clear indication that Seven Seas even acknowledges this as an issue to be addressed.
I mean, they clearly do think the fan outcry is an issue, but I've not seen an official press statement that the edits were an issue in themselves.
The closest I've seen comes from literally a few posts after mine:
@sevenseas said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:
While I am not able to provide specifics, I can say that, based on our internal investigation, there was not one singular cause for the issues fans have reported with a handful of Seven Seas' Airship titles, as these books were worked on over a wide span of time. It only comes across like there is a pattern because several unrelated problems were being reported at the same time.
This is the first time I've seen Seven Seas (or a representative thereof) call the issues, well, issues. Whether or not the problems are related or even intended, it's strangely difficult to get an acknowledgement that these are problems at all.
This matters, because we (as the general public) need to know if Seven Seas has identified the issue as being an issue, and thus something to be corrected. As opposed to considering it "a difference in opinion", which implies the same thing happening in future translations as they continue to hold the same opinions.
The demand for an apology is to make sure that Seven Seas understands that this is a thing that happened under their name and imprint, as opposed to a random happenstance borne from the mysterious aether. If they don't believe this is a mistake/issue/problem that they are responsible for (with the understanding that responsibility is not the same thing as active intent; just because you didn't mean to do something doesn't meant it's not your responsibility anyway), that's certainly a valid difference of opinion as well, but Seven Seas should then go all the way with that interpretation, and take the consequences thereof, rather than the wishy-washy "we'll change it just for you".
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Great to see all the Musshoku Tensei volumes will be fixed. I only have 1st volume of it so far, but it is a series I'm highly interested in. Looks like going for the E-books is the best with that series though, I normally go for physical when possible.
With that, I'm glad to say there's not yet an another publisher / organisation I have to boycott due to censorship, I already had enough of it with just Sony alone. Of course I'll follow with a keen eye whether Seven Seas will keep their word or not though.
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@sevenseas said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:
While I am not able to provide specifics, I can say that, based on our internal investigation, there was not one singular cause for the issues fans have reported with a handful of Seven Seas' Airship titles, as these books were worked on over a wide span of time. It only comes across like there is a pattern because several unrelated problems were being reported at the same time.
If we had to point out what perhaps is the unifying cause/issue, it would be that the work structure cuts out the translators once their work reaches the editing stage in the publication pipeline. I believe the best change that could be made going forward would be to have the translators working with the editors instead of where they lose all access to their work when they turn it in. It seems like newer publishers are going for having translators and editors working together during the entire process. So if Seven Seas made such a change, it would really show the community that more is being done to keep stories well translated and localized without excessive cuts compared to wide sweeping vague statements like "we've changed our editing process."
Honestly, all the frequent reveals now of very recent works having cuts (I'm in Love with the Villainess was my surprise favorite pickup last year), I'm super skeptical of when I'll buy any more SS prints. (It's not like I support SS digitally since there's no DRM-Free) I mean, Volume 1 came out in September and was worked on in 2020. The twitter posted this image about how the cuts in it were a result of the since scrapped editorial policy.
Seven Seas can't be considered a small scale publisher in the Light Novel Market. The company has very recently hit 75 Light Novel licenses, and it is frightening to think that what is essentially 2/3rds of YP or J-NC's library would have had such a blatantly flawed editorial policy for so long.
Seven Seas was my top publisher last year for grabbing a number of licenses that I wanted, but now I just feel trepidation about how many series will be having their first volumes come out with editorial cuts that were made before this "new editing policy." I really hope Seven Seas can turn things around and leave this comment asking for things to be made better as a fan of Light Novels.
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@darkwolf-psddcyt No announcement for that yet, there is hope though since they are correcting Mushoku Tensei.
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What they did to I’m in Love with the Villainess vol. 1 is near criminal and discriminatory as they completely delete one the most important and impactful parts of the series where the MC talks about what it is like for them being a lesbian and their views on what it means and affects them. Unlike the sometimes silly story telling of the volume this part is starkly serious and honest about what it is like and to them and the hurtful experiences that can come with it in society.
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@heimdal7 said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:
What they did to I’m in Love with the Villainess vol. 1 is near criminal and discriminatory as they completely delete one the most important and impactful parts of the series where the MC talks about what it is like for them being a lesbian and their views on what it means and affects them. Unlike the sometimes silly story telling of the volume this part is starkly serious and honest about what it is like and to them and the hurtful experiences that can come with it in society.
The issue with that passage in I'm in Love with the Villainess (Light Novel) Vol. 1 was very unfortunate. Our Airship team has put together a corrected digital edition of that book, though, which should be available by the end of March, and a new translator is taking over work on the series starting with the third novel. --AA
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@sevenseas said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:
@heimdal7 said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:
What they did to I’m in Love with the Villainess vol. 1 is near criminal and discriminatory as they completely delete one the most important and impactful parts of the series where the MC talks about what it is like for them being a lesbian and their views on what it means and affects them. Unlike the sometimes silly story telling of the volume this part is starkly serious and honest about what it is like and to them and the hurtful experiences that can come with it in society.
The issue with that passage in I'm in Love with the Villainess (Light Novel) Vol. 1 was very unfortunate. Our Airship team has put together a corrected digital edition of that book, though, which should be available by the end of March, and a new translator is taking over work on the series starting with the third novel. --AA
Earlier you stated there's not a single cause for all these apparently unrelated issues. But isn't the single commonality here that management itself is inept? It shows that the management hasn't put in place enough QC to prevent these types of issues either because they don't care or they don't have the money to do so. If there is indeed not a single cause. Maybe hiring practices also need to be checked (are you hiring translators or editors with insufficient qualifications or not checking their qualifications, for example?) There's numerous reasons like this that can be shared causes across all Sevenseas publications.
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@mlindner Please refrain from making personal attacks.
Whoever said nothing's impossible never tried slamming a revolving door.
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@sevenseas Thing is this has been going on for years and if was gonna be fixed it should been years ago. So many of them are ones that there is just no excuse for happening.
Take vol 1 of Bloom Into You. When it was announced it was licensed a SS rep actually came on reddit in r/manga and started talking about how committed they are to the series and yuri and how much SS cares about it and will treat it with so much care when translating. Then the vol comes out and literally have the MCs names wrong with names that aren't even in the manga anywhere plus did a spoiler in dialog using something from later in the story that was suppose been a big reveal but instead they said what it was specifically at the beginning in dialog that was suppose only allude there is something not known. There is even a big write up online about all the problems in the Bloom translating and editing of things that were wrong if you look for it. Plus there apparently were issues with the spin off LN to.
Then you have Kuma Bear where characters were switched when things that previously happened in earlier volumes and the current volume was mentioned in the story.
These are just issues that there is no reasonable excuse that can be made for them to happen.
To put it bluntly SS has zero credit in anything they say at this point and gonna take a lot of effort to regain any trust.
The don't make personal attack comment was made while I was typing this though don't think this would count as it is just stating facts and issues that shown up repeatedly and needs a lot more then just PR releases.
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my $.02:
SevenSeas could "make this right" with consumers. Offer a ebook of the revised edition(s) to those who email a photo of the barcode/ISBN (yes someone will cheat and borrow someone else's copy and game the system- but for the most part (IMHO) this would help rebuild relationships with readers more than be a sunk cost top SS)to those that fell slighted that their copies are tainted - congratulations - you now own a collectors item. First editions historically have errors/are in need of revisions that subsequent editions fix.
I read banned books
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@korppi said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:
@macadate Thanks for the info, and the work involved. So the volumes are littered with missing bits but you also found the bigger ones mentioned in vol. 2&3.
No idea how SS is going to fix this mess, assuming they will...
Edit 25/3;
In Elite vol. 5 Seven Seas summarized a big chunk of text into a few lines;
https://www.reddit.com/r/ClassroomOfTheElite/comments/lcong6/we_are_paying_to_the_wrong_translators_official/Two of my favorite light novels are Skeleton Knight and Reincarnated as a Sword and both are Seven Seas properties. I'd lie if I said I don't feel anguish over it, but so far there's been nothing, knock on wood. Trouble is, does it mean they are translated properly, or no-one's simply gone through and compared them yet?
You should be able to check pretty easily for Reincarnated as a Sword as the notable fan translation is one of the best fan translators out there. If there's any really major differences they should show up really easily. (Assuming it's not a light novel vs web novel difference.)
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@mlindner said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:
(Assuming it's not a light novel vs web novel difference.)
That's the rub - some web novels get published almost verbatim, others get almost completely rewritten during publishing, but I'd say most receive some moderately sized changes. The default assumption should always be that it is a WN->LN difference, IMO. Innocent until proven guilty.
I suppose you could buy the JP version of the LN, and then compare it to the JP version of the WN. Even if you don't speak Japanese, you could see if the letters match.
That sounds like a lot of extra work, though, so I'd recommend finding some fans of the series who speak both languages and asking them for their thoughts.
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@myskaros said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:
@mlindner Please refrain from making personal attacks.
There's no personal attack in that post. I didn't name anyone. It's company criticism.
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@heimdal7 said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:
Then you have Kuma Bear where characters were switched when things that previously happened in earlier volumes and the current volume was mentioned in the story.
Could you tell me exactly where, and which characters they were? I've read the volumes out so far a couple of times, and can't say I've noticed anything egregious, so if it's there, it could very well be subtle/an oversight.
Note: I've read the fan translated web novel as well, up until the point where the official translation was announced, and while that leaves a period of a year or two between my initial reading of the web novel and reading the official translation, nothing has stood out to me as obviously different, aside from the prose being vastly improved.
@mlindner said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:
You should be able to check pretty easily for Reincarnated as a Sword as the notable fan translation is one of the best fan translators out there. If there's any really major differences they should show up really easily. (Assuming it's not a light novel vs web novel difference.)
I followed the Reincarnated as a Sword web novel translation as well up until the official translation was announced, and with the same caveat as with Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear (a long time period between reading the web novel and the official release), I can't say I've noticed any glaring differences or omissions there either. (Edit: Aside from the author adding a lot to a few of the arcs. Edit 2: and Fran now speaking in complete sentences instead of sounding like a caveman, which is the case in the fan translation of the manga as well, so I'm assuming it's a difference between the web novel and the light novel.)
Don't take this as gospel, though. It's only one person's evaluation, and others may have a better memory than me, or pay more attention to details, in which case they could very well have spotted things that might be dealbreakers to them and others.
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@waterdweller said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:
@heimdal7 said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:
Then you have Kuma Bear where characters were switched when things that previously happened in earlier volumes and the current volume was mentioned in the story.
Could you tell me exactly where, and which characters they were? I've read the volumes out so far a couple of times, and can't say I've noticed anything egregious, so if it's there, it could very well be subtle/an oversight.
Note: I've read the fan translated web novel as well, up until the point where the official translation was announced, and while that leaves a period of a year or two between my initial reading of the web novel and reading the official translation, nothing has stood out to me as obviously different, aside from the prose being vastly improved.
In the think it was most recent official translated volume
Hopefully it has been fixed at least digitally as I informed them right after the volume came out and they responded that they got my email and thanked me for pointing it out.
