Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.

mlindner

@myskaros said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:

@mlindner Please refrain from making personal attacks.

There's no personal attack in that post. I didn't name anyone. It's company criticism.

WaterDweller

@heimdal7 said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:

Then you have Kuma Bear where characters were switched when things that previously happened in earlier volumes and the current volume was mentioned in the story.

Could you tell me exactly where, and which characters they were? I've read the volumes out so far a couple of times, and can't say I've noticed anything egregious, so if it's there, it could very well be subtle/an oversight.

Note: I've read the fan translated web novel as well, up until the point where the official translation was announced, and while that leaves a period of a year or two between my initial reading of the web novel and reading the official translation, nothing has stood out to me as obviously different, aside from the prose being vastly improved.

@mlindner said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:

You should be able to check pretty easily for Reincarnated as a Sword as the notable fan translation is one of the best fan translators out there. If there's any really major differences they should show up really easily. (Assuming it's not a light novel vs web novel difference.)

I followed the Reincarnated as a Sword web novel translation as well up until the official translation was announced, and with the same caveat as with Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear (a long time period between reading the web novel and the official release), I can't say I've noticed any glaring differences or omissions there either. (Edit: Aside from the author adding a lot to a few of the arcs. Edit 2: and Fran now speaking in complete sentences instead of sounding like a caveman, which is the case in the fan translation of the manga as well, so I'm assuming it's a difference between the web novel and the light novel.)

Don't take this as gospel, though. It's only one person's evaluation, and others may have a better memory than me, or pay more attention to details, in which case they could very well have spotted things that might be dealbreakers to them and others.

heimdal7

@waterdweller said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:

@heimdal7 said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:

Then you have Kuma Bear where characters were switched when things that previously happened in earlier volumes and the current volume was mentioned in the story.

Could you tell me exactly where, and which characters they were? I've read the volumes out so far a couple of times, and can't say I've noticed anything egregious, so if it's there, it could very well be subtle/an oversight.

Note: I've read the fan translated web novel as well, up until the point where the official translation was announced, and while that leaves a period of a year or two between my initial reading of the web novel and reading the official translation, nothing has stood out to me as obviously different, aside from the prose being vastly improved.

In the think it was most recent official translated volume

spoiler

Hopefully it has been fixed at least digitally as I informed them right after the volume came out and they responded that they got my email and thanked me for pointing it out.

heimdal7

@darkwolf-psddcyt The volume 1 stuff did in digital and new print batches of vol 1. Though all the other issues remained.

jpwong

@jon-mitchell said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:

SevenSeas could "make this right" with consumers. Offer a ebook of the revised edition(s) to those who email a photo of the barcode/ISBN (yes someone will cheat and borrow someone else's copy and game the system- but for the most part (IMHO) this would help rebuild relationships with readers more than be a sunk cost top SS)

I was thinking something like that could work as well, though I was imagining they would need mail in the entire back cover or something like JNC was doing with their print replacement program. Guess it would depend on whether stopping fraud vs actually having to have someone go through all the physical mail they'd be getting.

The main problem I see with that sort of offer is that as far as I can tell, seven seas doesn't have their own in house ebook program like JNC does, so any such program would almost certainly end up being tied to one of their ebook retail partners if it's even possible to work out.

WaterDweller

@heimdal7 said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:

spoiler

heimdal7

@waterdweller Welp dunno, they were wrong in mine. I read it in one sitting soon it released then notified them of the errors. Thinking about it I might be miss remembering the 2nd one. It might been they did it with the guild master. All I remember is something was with the naming. Wait are you reading when it initially happen or later when they are referencing back to it. ?
Ugh I'm have pull out my copy now.

WaterDweller

@heimdal7 I found the spot, and it was a mistake I had noticed as well now that I think about it.

spoiler

Edit: in other words, you were half-right about the first one, though you probably accidentally skipped the paragraph for the second point.

heimdal7

@waterdweller Ok 2nd one was the finna persective chapter at the end of the book on the third day part I think. Honestly I'm tying remember stuff from when it released and I've got a lousy memory at times.

heimdal7

@waterdweller ok found the email I sent them. I was remembering wrong some the stuff I had sent.

spoiler

WaterDweller

@heimdal7

spoiler

heimdal7

@waterdweller yep I was just remembering wrong who it said it was with the mistake.

WaterDweller

@heimdal7 The question remains whether it was a goof by the translator or a goof by the author. I recall checking similar mistakes previously in the corresponding web novels, and found in at least one of those cases that it was the author who had goofed, though in this case, it's in a side story which is light novel exclusive, so unfortunately I can't check. It's a minor goof, though, in my mind. I've made similar mistakes in my own stories from time to time.

Macadate

@heimdal7

spoiler

I guess when the stage reading of BIY includes any of the details missing in the light novels, another issue will be how well Seven Seas discerns what is and isn't important to adapt.

heimdal7

@macadate Well the digital they did and people said it was fixed in later versions physical versions. I only bought digital. Maybe you just ended up with a older version that didn't get sold. Is there any kind of dates on it?

Its been way to long for me to remember but I think they tried sweeping it under the rug so to speak to some degree. It being a niche market there wasn't that big a voice to call them out on it. This time though they pulled stuff with main stream series and very large fan bases that called them out on it and brought to light what they were doing. Then you got Villainous what for all intent and purposes was direct discriminatory editing with what they removed was about.

Who knows how many other series they done that they pulled this stuff with but the fanbase wasn't as big or invested enough to know the source material or by other means to show they were doing it to those series to.

What I can't get out my head is with the physicals they are making people buy them twice so they are cashing in double on novels that people will now have get a 2nd one with corrections.

BartzBB

@heimdal7
As @jon-mitchell said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:

to those that fell slighted that their copies are tainted - congratulations - you now own a collectors item. First editions historically have errors/are in need of revisions that subsequent editions fix.

The first book is now a rare collector's edition.

Wellwisher

To be honest, I find it baffling how a lot of people in this topic doubled down in their accusations once Seven Seas representative appeared. Hey, we finally got some of the answers we wanted, and we had an actual working channel of communication.
Situations like this really show why companies don't usually interact much in social media, if at all.

Gamen

@wellwisher Well, "there was not one singular cause for the issues" is a nice way of saying that they've got multiple issues, not just a simple-to-change censorship policy or a rogue editor or something. It's a warning that they're not going to have an easy time fixing their process problems and even after that mistakes will continue to be made.

I mean, other than confirmation of that what would you want from a representative in this thread? It's not like they're going to run down the specific decision that resulted in a particular editorial change and expose it to us here, or open up corrections threads for their novels in JNC's forums...

Personally I'm conflicted because I while I detest censorship I also believe translations are independent works themselves and not a substitute for the original any more (or less) than an anime or comic adaptation... And it is Seven Sea's translation, so they're free to change their story as they wish. And with MT they were consistent in their changes to Paul and Lilia's past, so I give them credit for that.

To me the problem isn't that they "censored" their own translations, but that by a lie of omission (and by putting the original author's name on the cover) they represented their translations as being faithful to the original work when they were really "formatted to fit this screen and edited for content", playing into the misconception that translations are somehow the words of the original author but magically changed into another language using a Babel fish or some isekai cheat power instead of being a particularly detail-oriented retelling by the translator...

...it's the same misconception that leads people to think that Google Translate can MTL a novel into English and it just needs a little editing to make it readable.

Edit: Though I suppose I have to acknowledge that since I'm at least passably literate in Japanese for me Seven Seas is not the gatekeeper to these works but merely a gateway.

Shiny

@gamen said in Seven Seas in Trouble for Heavy alterations and censorship of light novels.:

I mean, other than confirmation of that what would you want from a representative in this thread?

Good question. I think the following would be appropriate practical remedies for existing titles:

For digital editions, provide updates to all effected titles and let people know which titles these are so they can get the updates.
For print editions, fix for future printings and provide online errata to list any significant changes or omissions for those who already have a printed editions.

For future titles, I would expect them to take appropriate corrective measures based on the issues identified by their analysis of what went wrong. This could, for example, include:

Providing the translator with a 'track changes' copy of what was changed by the editor to see if they had any concerns to flag up to a more senior editor (a suggestion from earlier in this thread).
Ensuring translators are given appropriate instructions regarding the need to be faithful in translation and to flag up anything which could be controversial if it came to light.
Having a clear contact point for concerns that people have with translation decisions and a process for assessing them.

Gamen

@shiny Interesting, but I don't see why you replied to me; the operative phrase was in this thread. On JNC's forums.

I'd say more, but I hold at least three contradicting opinions on the subject >.>