Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.
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@kuali I think my point in comparison is that the series is on that weird very specific threshold that makes it annoying to me.
The author seems good enough that we expect better than bog-standard LN characterization, so when that's what we get it can feel dissapointing.
Arguably that's why it belongs in "hate on what you love"!
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Another grievance - every other translation house besides JNC!
Why the hell are they all so slow and opaque? I just got notification that the 19th volume of Deathmarch (an isekai series that I love beyond all rationality or ability to defend) is delayed yet again until September of this year!
The series is up to 27 volumes in Japan, so there's plenty of content out there. Yet the translators are somehow losing ground to the author! The author has consistently put out three novels per year for a while now, but Yen Press has only put out two volumes per year for the past few years. Grr!!
And the worst part is that there's nothing I can do but to rage quietly and impotently. At the end of the day, all I'm contributing is my $10 for each novel - and ten bucks won't buy you a whole lot of translation. I'm even actively worried that if I raise too much of a stink Yen Press might decide that Deathmarch is no longer worth the trouble and just drop it entirely (I hope its sales numbers are still OK). The fact that each new drop seems to take longer and longer has the same feeling as the "completion" time in a download dialog slowly increasing after the connection has been dropped ("100 days? I guess if I just leave it open long enough the file will eventually finish downloading."). And so all I can do is sit here watching it get delayed again and again just hoping that the series will continue to be published.
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@unknownmat The majority of Yen Press' issues like this are unlikely to be translation based. These kind of delays are more likely to mean issues in the printing process rather than the text not being ready. Unfortunately they believe in tying digital releases with physical releases, so that means everything gets delayed if the book isn't ready to release. Not every issue is necessarily with the book that gets delayed though, I figure they just see some series as less impactful if they're delayed than others.
As a minor note, Death March still had 3 volumes in 2021. This 2 per year thing began last year.
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@GeorgeMTO said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
Unfortunately they believe in tying digital releases with physical releases, so that means everything gets delayed if the book isn't ready to release.
That sucks if that's the reason. As a digital-only reader, I'm being inconvenienced for a consideration that adds no value to my experience. Of course, part of my frustration is that I have no insight into why it's being delayed - if they announced the reason for the delay it would be easier to swallow, at least.
As a minor note, Death March still had 3 volumes in 2021. This 2 per year thing began last year.
I had hoped it was just a COVID related hiccup and was disappointed when V18 and V19 kept getting pushed back. Hopefully they get back to three (or more) releases per year, and these delays don't signal waning enthusiasm for the series.
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@Windsagio said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
Edit: Even Georgine's response to things is absurdly out of scale, to the point of Evil-stupid. Even when I was reading the only thing I could figure out was that she maybe had been taking her own drug and self-brainwashed.
That is a fair criticism. I just figured she was obsessed/fixated and slightly out of her mind.
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@salientmind said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
@Windsagio said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
Edit: Even Georgine's response to things is absurdly out of scale, to the point of Evil-stupid. Even when I was reading the only thing I could figure out was that she maybe had been taking her own drug and self-brainwashed.
That is a fair criticism. I just figured she was obsessed/fixated and slightly out of her mind.
Yeah I assumed it was a Captain Ahab situation; she is so obsessed with getting her "revenge" that she doesn't care what happens along the way or what damage she causes to make that happen
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Forcing someone to have Stockholm syndrome to marry you is NOT cute or romantic
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@Campbella I assume one of the new Heart titles, but... context?
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@Gamen I Want to Escape from Princess Lessons if you want the title that prompted my comment but also just in general as a basis for a story
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So I have one that will maybe be controversial: Honorifics! Or more specifically, when honorifics and their usage play a prominent and plot-relevant role at any point in the story (e.g. Where it becomes an actual point of discussion in-story). This one has crept up on me slowly after years of LN consumption.
Previously, I have been mostly neutral on the subject of honorifics. I viewed them as a vestigial reminder of the Japanese culture from which the work originated. I accept that they can be impossible to remove without butchering the work even though they don't really have the same significance to a foreign audience. This is also true for other tropes of Japanese media such as nose bleeds and bathing. It was with this apathy that I have mostly just raised my eyebrows in confusion over how strongly LN readers seem to feel about the inclusion/exclusion of honorifics in translated works.
But lately I've come to see excessive focus on the usage of honorifics to be a cheap substitute for actually depicting character development. Wading into yet another paragraphs-long morass of tedious negotiations over <first name>-san vs. <last name>-san just leaves me rolling my eyes and bored out of my mind. Maybe to a Japanese reader this negotiation would be a meaningful and important way to express character development. But to me, an American reader, it just comes off as a cheap way to avoid doing the hard work of actually constructing prose to show the distance between two characters. A well-written scene filled with awkward interactions and poorly received jokes is far more evocative than stubbornly insisting on a more "distant" form of address, for example.
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@unknownmat So the use of honorifics to do Tell, don't show on relationship statuses? Yeah, I can see how that could get irritating.
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@kuali said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
So the use of honorifics to do Tell, don't show on relationship statuses? Yeah, I can see how that could get irritating.
Yeah, in summary that's basically it. I feel like this happens so often in LNs that it's nearly ubiquitous. It manifests in various ways, but to give some examples:
- A high-status characters will urge the main character to refer to them without honorifics, to which the protagonist will - after much boring and pointless hesitation - eventually consent to using some less-formal version of the name.
- Some overly obsequious character (often with ulterior motives) will repeatedly try to use an overly familiar version of the protagonist's name as a way to seem much closer than they have any right to be, only to be shut-down forcibly when the protagonist insists on keeping things ultra formal.
- etc.
I'm honestly uncertain the extent to which this is culturally appropriate in Japanese. But speaking as an English reader, it just comes off as lazy writing. Maybe the first time I encountered such a scene it might have felt like a refreshing way to indicate character relationships. But seeing it so much, it feels cliche and falls on the wrong side of the show vs. tell dichotomy. I guess my bigger issue is that it's also really boring - I just can't get invested in (i.e. I don't even kind of give a fuck about) minute differences in how two characters address each other.
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@unknownmat said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
So I have one that will maybe be controversial: Honorifics!
Incidentally, and somewhat tertiary to the discussion, this topic was born in a Reddit discussion thread.
A Reddit user posted to congratulate Quof for being recognized by Miya Kazuki (she had Tweeted about receiving the English V4 physical volumes). And amidst all the positive words, like clockwork, some asshole felt that that would be the appropriate place to raise a complaint about the lack of honorifics in Bookworm. Out of the blue, I suddenly realized how happy I was that Bookworm avoided honorifics. And also that I'd apparently been subconsciously accumulating a great deal of antipathy towards the use of honorifics in translated media, in general.
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Finished So I’m a Spider So What.
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@unknownmat said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
Why the hell are [all the non-JNC translation houses] so slow and opaque? I just got notification that the 19th volume of Deathmarch (an isekai series that I love beyond all rationality or ability to defend) is delayed yet again until September of this year! ... the translators are somehow losing ground to the author! ... Grr!!
Well, credit where credit is due...
I posted this in April of this year, and just yesterday volume 20 dropped on time without being pushed back at all! Thank you to Yen Press. This means that we're back up to three releases per year, hopefully! Delays have plagued this series for so long that I honestly didn't believe it would be released until it showed up on my Kindle last night, but show up it did. And I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. And now I'm looking forward to volume 21, which is scheduled for May next year. Crossing my fingers.
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@OtherOne said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
Quoting spoiler text...
Yeah. The series started out really strong. The mixed-up timeline was an interesting way to tell the story, and I was genuinely invested in Kumoko's character growth. I even remained casually interested in the rest of the characters. But the last several volumes have just not landed at all. I'm happy that the series has finally wrapped up. Short of a complete re-write, I think it was time to put it out of its misery. At least we got a conclusion.
I started to lose interest after ...
After that point, I think her character stopped growing, and even regressed. I found her inner monologue with all of its half-lies and hesitancy and false-starts mind-numbingly dull. By the end I was mostly skipping over pages of the stuff just to see what finally happened. The one character that I remained interested in - Sophia - played only a minimal role in the rest of the story. Even her schooling arc, which could have been fun, was breezed through in a few short sentences.
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@unknownmat The tripling-down on the geist typo is grating, though.
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@Gamen I think I caught one of those misspelling. I did catch a number of other spelling and grammatical errors, but I just reported them through Kindle and kept reading. I wonder if quality suffers at a pace of three per year. But in book 16 there were two instances where they mixed up Baronet Jelil and Sir Juleberg. So it's not like the slower pace was more conducive to quality, either.
In fact, apropos to this forum, the relatively large number of proofreading errors in LNs is something that bothers me. It makes the end product seem much less professional. I'm not sure how larger publishers manage it. But I do think LN publishing, broadly, has a very noticeable proofreading problem.
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I'm not sure this quite qualifies based upon the initial post...but it impacts whether an otherwise acceptable series becomes less so.
Someone in their blinking thirties acting like they're one foot in the grave purely due to their age.
They're in good enough shape that no one younger than them is defeating them, there aren't any true signs that they've started into a decline, but damn near every other sentence has them tossing in some version of "for someone my age" in their internal monologue, and it makes it into their spoken dialogue and they totally ignore anything anyone else says concerning their ability being exceptional at any age....OK, the one that triggered this is From Old Country Bumpkin to Master Swordsman 'cause it's majorly guilty of this, but there are others as well.
I'm well aware that to some in their teens and twenties, thirty is one foot in the grave senile beyond all hope, but on the whole the only folks who think that way once they are in their thirties are detached from reality in other ways...or they really are in bad health and it's not their age that is the issue.
As someone in their early sixties who has always been chasing after folks slightly older than me...it's only because my body is deteriorating on me that I have anything interfering with my mental image of still being in my twenties.
When in my thirties I questioned if I was really an adult yet...(at times with good reason.)
It's played as a version of the Oblivious MC, or an additional aspect of a specific Oblivious MC.
A number of the Oblivious MC tropes I don't have a problem with, since I've been there myself, but this is one that always reeks of the author being damn young themselves.I don't have a problem with those who acknowledge their age and that they aren't as young as they once were, but still recognize their own ability.
Well, there's a related trope concerning those who don't have a full comprehension of their ability due to not having had anyone available for proper comparison for some time.
The MC in Bumpkin has a bit of that, but even when he is forced to notice how he measures up he finds ways of discounting it; someone really did a number on him psychologically at one point is all we can think.
Belgrieve in S-Rank Adventurer also doesn't consider himself that impressive, certainly not enough for such a chuuni moniker as The Red Ogre! (more properly, "My dad, *The Red Ogre!")
He's come to accept that he is skilled, but still thinks his daughter is blowing it out of proportion...her coming up with a name for him and publicizing it all over hasn't helped any, since he knows he hasn't done anything that would have resulted in his being given such a handle in the normal course of events.Both of these MCs are skilled at training others to excel. They've other similarities.
Bel may be older.
Bel's got a missing lower leg.
Bel's better adjusted concerning his abilities and how others in the trade look at him.All your libraries are belong to us. | Those who do not read shall not eat.
Help me, Satomi-san. You're my only hope. | Fight! Yurika!
Croquettes, Baguettes, and Books, oh my! -
@Geezer-Weasalopes said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
Someone in their blinking thirties acting like they're one foot in the grave purely due to their age.
Good call. I can relate to this. A lot of Japanese media is written with the assumption that late-20s is about as old as is even worth mentioning. Everyone older than that is just a side-character.
Struggling to think of a good example, but this exchange from One Punch Man was telling... Atomic Samurai says "I'm only 37, I'm not old enough to be called 'ossan'", to which Saitama responds to himself "37 isn't ossan? I had no idea".
I'm well aware that to some in their teens and twenties, thirty is one foot in the grave
Yeah. To a teenager, 30 is about their entire lifespan away - it feels like a long way off.
I think it has to be acknowledged that most LNs are targeted at a younger audience. As an early listener of Baby Metal, I was pretty disturbed when the Reddit BM forums would refer to the singers as (e.g.) "Goddesses". I thought it was gross for adult men to be worshiping twelve-year-old girls. That was when it struck me - most of the participants were probably just teenagers themselves. In fact, I might have been the only older guy there - a bit like Michael Scott attending Magic Camp. So the behavior wasn't quite as disturbing or gross as it had initially struck me, and I may have been the only fish out of water there.
I don't have a problem with those who acknowledge their age and that they aren't as young as they once were, but still recognize their own ability.
I will only say that I think a lot of the antics that people get up to in LN and anime are things that are appropriate to the younger and less experienced. A measured and mature reaction hardly makes for engaging drama. "This is outrageous! I'm going to write a sternly worded letter to the local newspaper!"
