Publishing Label Idea: J-Novel Spade
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@kurosov If an author normally has a quiet environment to do their writing throughout the day since other occupants of their living spaces (neighbors, roommates, family members) work outside the home. If they have to deal with those outside factors during lockdowns, that means new noises and new distractions that they would have to cope with.
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@kurosov said in Publishing Label Idea: J-Novel Spade:
How is saying one line of work is well suited to a sudden shift to a work at home economy in any way like calling an entire profession a bunch of shut ins?
Because you didn't say that, you said "I am baffled why someone would stop working if their work isn't affected by circumstances," to which my answer is "because there are any number of non-work related scenarios that could have affected their ability to work."
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@kurosov It's worth mentioning that a majority of authors don't write books for a living and have a full-time job (be it because of writing not paying the bills, social stigma of not working a "proper" job, financial security or whatever else). And the disruption of their normal lifestyles may very well affect their ability to write.
It is only a "shut-in lifestyle" for a minority of authors who can and are willing to afford that.
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@endoftheline said in Publishing Label Idea: J-Novel Spade:
@kurosov If an author normally has a quiet environment to do their writing throughout the day since other occupants of their living spaces (neighbors, roommates, family members) work outside the home. If they have to deal with those outside factors during lockdowns, that means new noises and new distractions that they would have to cope with.
Which once again is something everyone having to work from home dealt with.
@myskaros said in Publishing Label Idea: J-Novel Spade:
Because you didn't say that, you said "I am baffled why someone would stop working if their work isn't affected by circumstances," to which my answer is "because there are any number of non-work related scenarios that could have affected their ability to work."
That still doesn't sound anything like calling them a shut in. Their work wasn't affected by the circumstances like other peoples was. I'm saying this as someone who did work from home before and during this time.
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@kurosov said in Publishing Label Idea: J-Novel Spade:
@endoftheline said in Publishing Label Idea: J-Novel Spade:
@kurosov If an author normally has a quiet environment to do their writing throughout the day since other occupants of their living spaces (neighbors, roommates, family members) work outside the home. If they have to deal with those outside factors during lockdowns, that means new noises and new distractions that they would have to cope with.
Which once again is something everyone having to work from home dealt with.
Yes, and? Not everyone deals with changes in their environment the same way. So, people the change enhances it, in other people the change can devastate it. The pandemic changed things, and authors won't magically always be able to adapt to the changes. Or rather, their adaptation was to stop writing.
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@kurosov You seem to be taking offense at the term "shut in" which I have not used at all, but if a specific word or phrase I used bothers you, then I apologize. My overall point is that no, I don't think it's fair for you to be "baffled" that many authors stopped working during one of the biggest global crises in our lifetimes, regardless of how unaffected their work is to the circumstances.
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Hello,
I am here to end the side topic that has cropped up here.
It is not directly connected to the topic at hand, and rather then move it over I will be cutting it off now.
Let's move on and circle back to the original suggestion (if you wish to comment on that itself).
Thank you
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I do like the idea of JNC adding a side label of "Resuscitation Licenses", for lack of a more concise term, and the fact that a "spade" is both a digging tool and a suit of cards makes it especially appropriate. Although I have to ask... what would J-Novel Diamond be?
My grasp on sanity remains absolute.
Oh, right, the poison, the poison for Kuzco, the poison chosen especially to kill Kuzco, Kuzco's poison. ...That poison?
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@TheGrimLich said in Publishing Label Idea: J-Novel Spade:
Although I have to ask... what would J-Novel Diamond be?
Custom-commisioned new Light Novels written by Sam?
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@TheGrimLich A publisher of extremely dense tomes that provide surprising clarity if you can manage to see your way through to the other side. Or you can use them to adorn your bookcase, declaring each one to be among the gems of your collection.
Either way, good optics. “Light” novels, basically.
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It's an interesting idea, including the benefit of how many LNs have WN roots.
Some potential challenges do include:
1- Marketing: how would the series be clearly connected on J-Novel (which doesn't even have the cleanest linking between manga/LN versions) or in other apps? And how much would this matter ?(say, to make it clearer that one is a translation of an LN and another the WN, and the various discrepancies that come with it). And to confirm cancellation may lead to forgetting the base series exists, so what marketing would be required to rebuild interest?
2- Licensing: it may be seen as interfering where the JP publisher usually works. And there's also the matter of series where the LN has been licensed by another overseas publisher, and whether J-Novel would try for those ones as well (which may be seen as having notable demand, but may have various issues).
3- Conflicting volumes: let's say J-Novel Spade managed to get the next volume of a cancelled/hiatus series (such as Her Majesty's Swarm 4 or Mixed Bathing 7) via Spade (so the publisher has no plans for new volumes at that time for whatever reason). Then the JP publisher decides to publish a new volume. How would this be resolved? Sticking with definitely cancelled series licensed by J-Novel for a fair chunk of time (like The Economics of Prophecy) would probably alleviate this challenge, but does make marketing a bit rougher again.
4- Editing/art: I imagine that the editorial process may need more changes - discussing things with the author due to clumsy wording that doesn't even work well in Japanese, so what is "they fix to maintain their meaning before translation" versus "have everything edited unilaterally by J-Novel"? And how would story changes between the LN and WN (character introductions, arcs, deaths, etc) be handled? And would art be added to make it less abrupt transitioning?
5- Royalties: how would these be arranged (both the type of payments/fees and actual negotiations with the author)? And how much may the back end for J-Novel (usually B2B for licensing) need adaptations to directly include licensing from an author?
6- Content: would bonus WN stories be included? What about complete series with afterstories that are not published? I imagine these may be skipped, but still a point of note.
7- Competition: keeping in mind I don't really know the WN scene, I believe scanlations are considered more acceptable due to the base WN being free (money wise; advertising revenue would naturally be reduced). So that may make it a harder proposition for J-Novel, where people who read scanlated LNs may prefer a more ethical approach and purchase a translated copy whilst free WN vs free scanlation is a bit harder to explain why you now need to pay. Maybe a reduced price may help? Catch up changes could also work, but then need to figure out payments to the author.Fair bit of critique here, but are questions that do need to be considered for scope, short-term viability, and long-term effects on the business, and have suggested some potential criteria for selecting series/content to minimise some risks.
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1- Marketing: how would the series be clearly connected on J-Novel (which doesn't even have the cleanest linking between manga/LN versions) or in other apps? And how much would this matter ?(say, to make it clearer that one is a translation of an LN and another the WN, and the various discrepancies that come with it). And to confirm cancellation may lead to forgetting the base series exists, so what marketing would be required to rebuild interest?
Marketing wise, it would probably be the same way JNC handles most of their marketing. Maybe a small announcement like they've done for Mixed Bathing resuming or how a few more Sol Press titles have begun their re-release. If there was a fan-base on the site, then they'll just go back to buying the volumes most likely if they see it on the calendar. (Pre-pubs existing tends to be a good way of marketing.) For off-site buyers, they'll probably just buy the next volume when it comes out the same way they would normally buy them. Marketing specifically as J-Novel Spade would likely be for the sake of advertising that JNC is buying good-will by "rescuing" series the same way they did for all the Sol Press titles they grabbed.
2- Licensing: it may be seen as interfering where the JP publisher usually works. And there's also the matter of series where the LN has been licensed by another overseas publisher, and whether J-Novel would try for those ones as well (which may be seen as having notable demand, but may have various issues).
I mentioned this in another comment, but a Japanese Publisher that has already axed the series should probably not have any say in the web novel after dropping the LN. The whole competition reasoning about avoiding Web Novels has traditionally been about licensing stuff before they could ever get published in Japan like Cross Infinite World does with a few series.
In the case of other overseas editions like Chinese/Korean/German, those other licensing publishers would probably have to deal with the authors for similar labels. The author in this case would typically be the rights holder of the original work.
3- Conflicting volumes: let's say J-Novel Spade managed to get the next volume of a cancelled/hiatus series (such as Her Majesty's Swarm 4 or Mixed Bathing 7) via Spade (so the publisher has no plans for new volumes at that time for whatever reason). Then the JP publisher decides to publish a new volume. How would this be resolved? Sticking with definitely cancelled series licensed by J-Novel for a fair chunk of time (like The Economics of Prophecy) would probably alleviate this challenge, but does make marketing a bit rougher again.
I imagine that despite JP Publishers never confirming axes, they can still privately reveal to the English Publisher if they don't feel like being malicious. In general, the label would probably be only for stuff that can be very safely confirmed as axed. Mixed Bathing was slow coming but there was a precedent with Mixed Bathing volume 6 to justify waiting two years. I imagine that JNC would have to discuss with the authors regarding if they have the rights to their series to avoid stepping on any legal toes in the end regardless.
4- Editing/art: I imagine that the editorial process may need more changes - discussing things with the author due to clumsy wording that doesn't even work well in Japanese, so what is "they fix to maintain their meaning before translation" versus "have everything edited unilaterally by J-Novel"? And how would story changes between the LN and WN (character introductions, arcs, deaths, etc) be handled? And would art be added to make it less abrupt transitioning?
There's already a precedent as The Bloodline was never published in Japan so it seems like JNC handled the editing for that. Part of the deal for the difference would probably involve detailed communication with the author regarding any differences or if they want to submit a manuscript. Art would probably be something JNC would have to decide on as art isn't a requirement for Light Novels to have art but while it would be nice, it could be tough having to track down illustrators. Cross Infinite World has experience in this so they may be worth looking at for their methods.
5- Royalties: how would these be arranged (both the type of payments/fees and actual negotiations with the author)? And how much may the back end for J-Novel (usually B2B for licensing) need adaptations to directly include licensing from an author?
This likely isn't a detailed issue since JNC has already done stuff similar. The Bloodline again was never published in Japan by a company and then there's stuff like JK Haru Summer and Guide to the Isekai which were doujinshi licensed directly from authors.
6- Content: would bonus WN stories be included? What about complete series with afterstories that are not published? I imagine these may be skipped, but still a point of note.
Probably a very case by case basis. Not all JNC series come with fantastical bonuses like stories or even HQ Illustrations. Sometimes JNC does glossaries or editor/translator interviews. Hell, if they're licensing from the author directly, they could even interview them.
7- Competition: keeping in mind I don't really know the WN scene, I believe scanlations are considered more acceptable due to the base WN being free (money wise; advertising revenue would naturally be reduced). So that may make it a harder proposition for J-Novel, where people who read scanlated LNs may prefer a more ethical approach and purchase a translated copy whilst free WN vs free scanlation is a bit harder to explain why you now need to pay. Maybe a reduced price may help? Catch up changes could also work, but then need to figure out payments to the author.
I don't think competition will be that bad as JNC already defeats the competition pretty soundly with speed and quality compared to web novel translations. Most web novel fan-translators have traditionally not been doing it because of any legality (it's still illegal regardless of being free). Instead, because they rarely care much about the quality and don't want to spend any money themselves when they can more easily copy/paste web novels to google translate or DeepL for their machine translations.
Ultimately, not all the issues mentioned are really new issues as JNC has addressed a number of them through other series and practices. There's definitely stuff that would have to be figured out, but we're not paid to figure everything out for them. XD Any new venture requires work and JNC hasn't shied away previously from stuff like German Pulp Novels, or DRM-Free manga. J-Novel Spade is just another logical potential improvement to the JNC business directed at consumers.
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For the art, they could always pull a CIW and do a commission.
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@Brakes said in Publishing Label Idea: J-Novel Spade:
3- Conflicting volumes: let's say J-Novel Spade managed to get the next volume of a cancelled/hiatus series (such as Her Majesty's Swarm 4 or Mixed Bathing 7) via Spade (so the publisher has no plans for new volumes at that time for whatever reason). Then the JP publisher decides to publish a new volume. How would this be resolved? Sticking with definitely cancelled series licensed by J-Novel for a fair chunk of time (like The Economics of Prophecy) would probably alleviate this challenge, but does make marketing a bit rougher again.
I seriously doubt that an author would negotiate directly with an overseas publisher if still under contract with a Japanese publisher for a given series.
In other words, they wouldn't talk to J-Novel to publish it directly unless their own understanding was that the publisher had dropped it; that they had received official notice from the publisher that no further volumes would be published under their imprint.
The contract to publish had ended, there were no legal obligations for either party concerning future volumes.
So, not a 'publisher hiatus' situation, but where the publisher had outright stated that there woiuld be no further volumes from them.This being the case...if the Japanese publisher later decided that they wanted to pick the series up again, it would be an entirely new negotiation between them and the author, just like it would be if a different Japanese publisher decided they wanted to pick it up.
They would enter into negotiations with the contract between the author and J-Novel an established thing.If the Japanese LN did recommence publication as a result of such negotiations...
Whether there could be a licensed English release of the resumed LN within the US would depend upon the contract J-Novel had with the author. [Whether there were any 'rights of first refusal', text to the effect that the current license had no bearing whatsoever on any future Japanese LN volumes and their translation, or whatever...]
There would even be the possibility of J-Novel ending up publishing two different versions of the story going forward from where the LN had been officially dropped if they initially published under this proposed imprint and then the series resurrected in Japan and they negotiated a license for the 'new' LN releases as well. -
@Aruseus493 said in Publishing Label Idea: J-Novel Spade:
Marketing wise, it would probably be the same way JNC handles most of their marketing. Maybe a small announcement like they've done for Mixed Bathing resuming or how a few more Sol Press titles have begun their re-release. If there was a fan-base on the site, then they'll just go back to buying the volumes most likely if they see it on the calendar. (Pre-pubs existing tends to be a good way of marketing.) For off-site buyers, they'll probably just buy the next volume when it comes out the same way they would normally buy them. Marketing specifically as J-Novel Spade would likely be for the sake of advertising that JNC is buying good-will by "rescuing" series the same way they did for all the Sol Press titles they grabbed.
I'm more talking about how they would likely end up over two different pages (one for the LN translation, one for the WN translation) yet the website doesn't really give a good way to access another series without manually searching (for an example of this, the Rokujouma Kickstarter short stories are on their own page, yet there's no direct link between those or the base series).
That's probably more the text included (even something like was SSE does for referring to the manga series would probably work), so mainly just some kinks to organise. It would probably be best to leave them in the same series when organising on Amazon/Kobo/etc to make it easier though, with some organising of how much to show is based on variant material.
I mentioned this in another comment, but a Japanese Publisher that has already axed the series should probably not have any say in the web novel after dropping the LN. The whole competition reasoning about avoiding Web Novels has traditionally been about licensing stuff before they could ever get published in Japan like Cross Infinite World does with a few series.
In the case of other overseas editions like Chinese/Korean/German, those other licensing publishers would probably have to deal with the authors for similar labels. The author in this case would typically be the rights holder of the original work.
It would be the hope that these licenses can be organised cleanly. Just depends on what's specified in the contracts (including for revealing such details). And that J-Novel can make sure to not damage the trust of the companies it’s licensing from.
I imagine that despite JP Publishers never confirming axes, they can still privately reveal to the English Publisher if they don't feel like being malicious. In general, the label would probably be only for stuff that can be very safely confirmed as axed. Mixed Bathing was slow coming but there was a precedent with Mixed Bathing volume 6 to justify waiting two years. I imagine that JNC would have to discuss with the authors regarding if they have the rights to their series to avoid stepping on any legal toes in the end regardless.
@Geezer-Weasalopes said in Publishing Label Idea: J-Novel Spade:
I seriously doubt that an author would negotiate directly with an overseas publisher if still under contract with a Japanese publisher for a given series.
In other words, they wouldn't talk to J-Novel to publish it directly unless their own understanding was that the publisher had dropped it; that they had received official notice from the publisher that no further volumes would be published under their imprint.
The contract to publish had ended, there were no legal obligations for either party concerning future volumes.
So, not a 'publisher hiatus' situation, but where the publisher had outright stated that there woiuld be no further volumes from them.This being the case...if the Japanese publisher later decided that they wanted to pick the series up again, it would be an entirely new negotiation between them and the author, just like it would be if a different Japanese publisher decided they wanted to pick it up.
They would enter into negotiations with the contract between the author and J-Novel an established thing.If the Japanese LN did recommence publication as a result of such negotiations...
Whether there could be a licensed English release of the resumed LN within the US would depend upon the contract J-Novel had with the author. [Whether there were any 'rights of first refusal', text to the effect that the current license had no bearing whatsoever on any future Japanese LN volumes and their translation, or whatever...]
There would even be the possibility of J-Novel ending up publishing two different versions of the story going forward from where the LN had been officially dropped if they initially published under this proposed imprint and then the series resurrected in Japan and they negotiated a license for the 'new' LN releases as well.
Also would hope for this to be properly communicated. And to also have some mechanism in case something like Her Majesty’s Swarm occurs, with figuring out whether the JP publisher is getting onto it and renewed the contract for the series and thus whether to do a WN rescue or get the LN (especially as may end up back with the WN if the series gets re-cancelled).@Aruseus493 said in Publishing Label Idea: J-Novel Spade:
There's already a precedent as The Bloodline was never published in Japan so it seems like JNC handled the editing for that. Part of the deal for the difference would probably involve detailed communication with the author regarding any differences or if they want to submit a manuscript. Art would probably be something JNC would have to decide on as art isn't a requirement for Light Novels to have art but while it would be nice, it could be tough having to track down illustrators. Cross Infinite World has experience in this so they may be worth looking at for their methods.
@Torka said in Publishing Label Idea: J-Novel Spade:
For the art, they could always pull a CIW and do a commission.
Good that there are means of it being done, although again depends on whether it’s seen as worthwhile.
@Aruseus493 said in Publishing Label Idea: J-Novel Spade:
This likely isn't a detailed issue since JNC has already done stuff similar. The Bloodline again was never published in Japan by a company and then there's stuff like JK Haru Summer and Guide to the Isekai which were doujinshi licensed directly from authors.
Didn’t know about those, and whilst Guide to the Isekai might still have some corporate set-up (it’s a group of authors rather than a single one), JK Haru (AFAIK) would be a decent example.
Probably a very case by case basis. Not all JNC series come with fantastical bonuses like stories or even HQ Illustrations. Sometimes JNC does glossaries or editor/translator interviews. Hell, if they're licensing from the author directly, they could even interview them.
I’m more talking about a hypothetical case where the afterstories for a WN such as Arifureta or Fushi no Kami are not published. In such as case, would these be a Spade rescue, or left as is?
I don't think competition will be that bad as JNC already defeats the competition pretty soundly with speed and quality compared to web novel translations. Most web novel fan-translators have traditionally not been doing it because of any legality (it's still illegal regardless of being free). Instead, because they rarely care much about the quality and don't want to spend any money themselves when they can more easily copy/paste web novels to google translate or DeepL for their machine translations.
Good points. The quality aspect would be one of the more valued arguments for readers.
Ultimately, not all the issues mentioned are really new issues as JNC has addressed a number of them through other series and practices. There's definitely stuff that would have to be figured out, but we're not paid to figure everything out for them. XD Any new venture requires work and JNC hasn't shied away previously from stuff like German Pulp Novels, or DRM-Free manga. J-Novel Spade is just another logical potential improvement to the JNC business directed at consumers.
True. Just useful to consider potential limitations, whether it be for the line as a whole or for what types of content gets licensed and how.
Also, it's very much a case of how series fit between a Bloodline style case (where the series wasn't licensed at all in JP) or Her Majesty's Swarm (renewed on the JP end).
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Sorry to burst your bubble but the concepts for J-Novel Spade, and J-Novel Diamond have existed from the time we launched heart.
But nice discussion anyway.(When might we launch these new labels? Eventually, when we are ready)
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@admin said in Publishing Label Idea: J-Novel Spade:
Sorry to burst your bubble but the concepts for J-Novel Spade, and J-Novel Diamond have existed from the time we launched heart.
But nice discussion anyway.(When might we launch these new labels? Eventually, when we are ready)
I was about to ask concerning the concepts for J-Novel Club...and the dent in my desk from the headslam is amazing!
Boy did I feel stuupid...
[I'm presuming the concepts for J-Novel Spade & Diamond differ from that promulgated in this discussion topic.] -
Well if people want concepts, we're not limited to just 4 card suits, they can't have concepts for every card related term planned out yet can they? The J-Novel Joker branding could be a real wild card.
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J-Novel Knight has been announced as the name for the BL imprint. Which means spade is back up for potential usage for a rescue label. :-P
