JNC Writing Support Group
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@jazzyjeoff said in JNC Writing Support Group:
...and you have to trust your reader to stick with something that may initially feel both low-key and unfamiliar.
That was a big concern of mine too. Something inexplicable has happened to my protag, so at what point does someone take him aside and explain it? The longer I left it, the more scope there was to introduce him and demonstrate his strength of character and his deductive skills, but also the more likely it felt that someone reading it (and especially someone judging it) would just go "whatever" and move on to the next novel.
If it was a published novel then it would be down to percentages of readers who would be interested enough to stick with it until the plot opened up more fully, but here there would be just one judge with over 40 other books to look at.
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@Angelus said in JNC Writing Support Group:
That was a big concern of mine too. Something inexplicable has happened to my protag, so at what point does someone take him aside and explain it? The longer I left it, the more scope there was to introduce him and demonstrate his strength of character and his deductive skills, but also the more likely it felt that someone reading it (and especially someone judging it) would just go "whatever" and move on to the next novel.
The best tactic for a situation like this would be to create a sense of mystery by dropping some hints that something's not quite right. This will give the reader something to think about, and they may even start speculating as to what's going on. Wanting to know the solution and/or see if their guess was right should keep readers invested until the reveal happens.
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@Parity I go on this long rant about liking third person limited, but... I think I'll be writing my next story in first person, solely because it lets the protagonist go unnamed and ungendered.
In the very least, I'll be going mixed perspective. Third person limited when following other people's perspective, first when following the MC. I think it works pretty well in "My Magical Career at Court".
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Although the novel for the contest was my first original work, I have written quite a bit of Tearmoon Empire fanfic stuff—and while not exactly polished—I think a lot of it was very charming and was my inspiration for doing the contest.
The funny thing is (to me at least) is there is not even a tiny bit of the Tearmoon stuff I could recycle for this. I mean, on the surface the works seem at least a little bit related—and it’s not like I am against taking shortcuts (I am pretty lazy at my core), but the characters are so distinct—I mean both my Tearmoon characters and my new characters feel real to me. So having words from my version of Anne, Mia or Gain, being spoken by a different character just feels weird! -
@jazzyjeoff It's not lazy--you'd be surprised at how many books out there actually started as fanfiction. Fifty Shades of Grey is probably the most (im)famous example, but it's hardly the only one. Despite what George R. R. Martin thinks, writing fanfiction is great practice for learning to write. It's also very common for authors to take varying degrees of inspiration from existing characters. Just take a look at the "Expy" page on TV Tropes :) Another really common technique is to take just one major aspect from a character or person, then design a whole new character around them.
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@jazzyjeoff said in JNC Writing Support Group:
Although the novel for the contest was my first original work, I have written quite a bit of Tearmoon Empire fanfic stuff—and while not exactly polished—I think a lot of it was very charming and was my inspiration for doing the contest.
The funny thing is (to me at least) is there is not even a tiny bit of the Tearmoon stuff I could recycle for this. I mean, on the surface the works seem at least a little bit related—and it’s not like I am against taking shortcuts (I am pretty lazy at my core), but the characters are so distinct—I mean both my Tearmoon characters and my new characters feel real to me. So having words from my version of Anne, Mia or Gain, being spoken by a different character just feels weird!It’s isn’t lazy and makes perfect sense. My very first published work was in a charity fanzine.
But I haven’t done the “file the serial numbers off” thing because, as you say, it just feels wrong for the character.
Most of my characters have the own voice and copying them from an another media property does not really work in a novel (although I do like playing in other people’s world where I can be true to their world).
By the way - where can we find your Tearmoon stuff? I only found the series when the anime came out and have mainlined the first 11 volumes and am in the market for more :)
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@Damon-Cavalchini Royal Road has “The Tearmoon Princess in the Kingdom of Remno” —is 37 chapters (I actually tried illustrating that one, but thought they might be distracting, so I threw them all in one chapter at the end). Also I have 4 chapter short story “Tearmoon Empire, Before Mia” which hasn’t been as popular—but I thought it was cute (Mia’s parents story).
I’ve started posting an incomplete volume on Archive of our own—(I get more views on Royal Road, but folks on Archive of our Own are more likely to comment). I stopped it when I started this contest—but the most recent arc from the official series is playing hell with the continuity, so I am not sure if I will finish it, especially if I don’t get feedback on it. I have other things that I haven’t published.
Actually, I first started writing Tearmoon as a sort of gag series between volumes in the J-Novel forums. I had Chloe and Tiona hosting a game show where folks on the forums would post their mini-fanfics and then different Tearmoon characters would rif on their stories as judges. It was pure silliness, but that is probably when the characters began to talk to me and I felt like I could write a full volume (eventually the mods got mad at us and put us in a separate topic in the forums. probably the right thing to do—but it was so much fun while it lasted). -
Thanks. I’ll go looking for these. Fun is always a great place to start writing from.
I haven’t actually looked at places like Royal Road before so there is a danger I am about to go down a very long rabbit hole :)
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@Damon-Cavalchini said in JNC Writing Support Group:
Thanks. I’ll go looking for these. Fun is always a great place to start writing from.
I haven’t actually looked at places like Royal Road before so there is a danger I am about to go down a very long rabbit hole :)
@jazzyjeoff’s Tearmoon fics were such a treat in between volumes that I suggested that they enter the writing contest. I’m so glad they did cause it means means I have the opportunity to read a full length story from them😊
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Well, i have started the second book of my series, my opening is workable. Aside from that, I have maybe 100 pieces of a two-thousand piece jigsaw puzzle with 20-50 pieces from other random puzzles thrown in just for laughs.
I really want to feel like I have made some progress by the time they announce the first round results, or I am afraid that I will fall into a total funk when I don’t advance. (I have to keep saying “when I don’t advance” since I know that not advancing is the most probable outcome—but my emotions are not tracking with my brain).
Anyway, how is everyone else’s stuff going?
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@jazzyjeoff Nothing concrete. I started two documents, one for short stories which will include bits I wanted to write but ran out of time for in my entry. I have four or five titles for the short stories written down but not any actual content.
The other is just called 'Scraps'. It's more of a digital notepad/reference sheet with ideas I didn't want to forget: character names, words I'd like to use (shrewd, quavered, etc.), and things like that.
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@jazzyjeoff I'm still writing another work that is contracted elsewhere. Not sure if I should continue where my first volume finished for this competition just yet. I need to finish persona 3 reload first and then I'll have some extra time lol.
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@jazzyjeoff said in JNC Writing Support Group:
Anyway, how is everyone else’s stuff going?
I finished my contest submission in a bit of a whirlwind and while I have clear ideas on how to improve it I'm holding off on revisiting it till March.
To some degree I feel my biggest issue was that I ran out of time to do cross-manuscript revision, some of my characters have different tones in different chapters because I was still figuring them out over the months I wrote things, and I fear that sticks out, for example. I also feel like there are big opportunities to smooth out the beginning of the book, I might have gone a bit heavy with exposition as I didn't know how much I'd need to convey about the setting and err'd on the side of saying too much.
Letting it settle and fall out of my mind is an important step before revisiting it, I think. I also want to productionize various python scripts I wrote during the contest, really just clean things up.
I also came up with an idea for a second series I'd like to write for the next contest. At the moment it's a 10/10 series title and a few scattered ideas but I need to put more work to find some story beats that will resonate and hook people in.
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@jazzyjeoff Don't forget, JNC has said it's very likely they'll hold another contest next year. Even if you don't advance this time, you can always rework the story with feedback and submit it again next year :)
As for my writing progress, I finished two short stories for volume one, and started my volume two, which is sitting around 12k words at the moment. Palworld and Granblue Fantasy Relink have been eating into my writing time in a major way, ahaha.
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Great discussion. I have two ideas I’ve been working on outside of work and waiting for the inevitable sad news in March.
One is a standalone sequel (about 3,000 words in) to one of my submissions for this round while the other is an isekai that simply wouldn’t let me ignore it any longer. I’ll probably sub the sequel for the next round depending on what (if any) feedback I get.
The tone on the Isekai is wrong at the moment (or not as engaging as I’d like so far) but it is still in the ugly draft phase and the plot is coming together outside of my own ignorance (what exactly is the best way to optimise the running of an adventurer’s guild?).
I very want my extremely put upon office worker to actually use their admin skills rather than OP superpowers to drive the plot when they aren’t fighting monsters or helping the hero face the Demon Lord.
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@Alfaerin Well, I hope they give some sort of input from J-Novel, even if I don't advance. Looking at the contest description, they only promise input for those that make it past the first round. It's an awful lot of work to get a thank you but, you didn't make it note. I know that their end has to be pretty tough-- with close to 500 entries and figuring out something constructive but not totally discouraging for each one would have to be sort of draining.
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@jazzyjeoff @Alfaerin - It would be nice to get some feedback for those who drop out in round one but they’ve been clear it isn’t likely to happen.
Whatever happens, I’m glad I subbed and if it isn’t for them (unless they say never submit again and block me), I’ll be back for the next time they run this.
With almost 500 entries, anything more than “sorry, try again time” is probably way too much of an ask. Plus most publishers don’t necessarily give feedback on manuscripts outside of “we’ve chosen not to progress with your work at this time”.
Not that this has happened to me :)
Sometimes you get feedback but it isn’t the norm.
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@Damon-Cavalchini said in JNC Writing Support Group:
Sometimes you get feedback but it isn’t the norm.
I look forward to ChatGPT-5 (6? 7?), it will be able to read whole novels in a few seconds and then give feedback as good as a professional editor. "Hey, it looks like you're writing a novel..."
As for my own efforts, I'm currently working on 3 things:
- Adding a map and some illustrations (however did people who can't draw manage before AI?) solely for my own satisfaction to the novel I submitted. That's complete now except for the cover, probably going to need to brush up my rusty Blender skills for some of that.
- Carrying on with the other volumes of the novel, not that I'll win a prize for the first volume, but both of my beta readers want to know what happens next.
- Seeing if I can make my harebrained idea of combining a sci-fi/fantasy story set 200 million years in the future with an isekai somehow work.
The two story threads in that last one are currently kind of like oil and water, one thread is a deadly serious third-person (well, third-something!) story about someone placed under house arrest for her heretical views about evolution, and the other thread is a lightheared first-person isekai. I'm trying the alternating chapters approach right now, but it doesn't feel like it's working so I've clearly got a long way to go. I really don't want to drop the isekai part, though, because I'm very pleased with how it's started off, so if one part has to go it will have to be the serious one, I guess.
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@Angelus - It sounds great but the variation between might be hard to manage. Keep going with it and once you’ve finished, then tease it apart if needed.
That way you have skeletons of a story to work on.
I haven’t tried AI as an editor and I’m not sure how that would even work to be honest. I mean, how would recognise stylistic tricks that may not clean grammar but which highlight character?
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@Damon-Cavalchini said in JNC Writing Support Group:
I haven’t tried AI as an editor and I’m not sure how that would even work to be honest.
I'm about to find out! I've just discovered that Nvidia released a chatbot yesterday that runs locally on almost all RTX 30/40 graphics cards and that you can train on your own documents, so I'm downloading that now (only 35GB zipped!) and I'll see what it makes of my novel.
