JNC Writing Support Group
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@Hylebos said in JNC Writing Support Group:
@Damon-Cavalchini said in JNC Writing Support Group:
Hi there,
As a completely different solution, it’s been pointed out that J-Novel Club actually already have a creative writing discord where we can swap materials and get feedback.
It has a small membership at the moment but we could also move across. This gets rid of the need to share Google Doc links and so on.
The #creative-writing channel on the JNC discord does still tend to use google docs though for anything larger than two or three paragraphs, it's too hard to review in channel otherwise as it scrolls up with the chat.
Thanks. I haven’t tried the creative writing group (I didn’t even know it existing until it was pointed out to me).
So - the plan would be to still go ahead here using the guidelines above?
The only rule we have have been asked to follow is to not publish anything that has been submitted to the competition. Sequel, follow-up, short stories in the same universe are all fair game but not your actual submissions.
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@Damon-Cavalchini Thank you for the kind words ^^ Not that it stopped me from winding up in the hospital yet again, but I do appreciate the thought.
Regarding the rules, I have some suggestions for things to add:
For rule number one, mention that writing a story is to take a part of yourself and put it into words. Sharing the result with others and opening yourself up to criticism is hard, and it's easy to take things personally. Call on reviewers to be tactful and keep criticism constructive, and remind writers to be polite in their responses. Explain that while criticism is hard to hear, it shouldn't be viewed negatively; it helps you grow as a writer when people tell you what needs improving. Also mention that criticism is subjective, and shouldn't necessarily always be acted on. If you're unsure whether to follow advice or not, suggest asking for more opinions first.
For rule number four, I suggest adding some specific questions for reviewers to consider while they read, like "who was your favorite character and why?" or "What part of the story was your least favorite, and why?" Also provide examples of what kinds of feedback are helpful and not helpful. Good feedback tells the writer specifically what things they did right, and what things could be improved. "I enjoyed the story" is not helpful feedback, but "The characters really sucked me in, and I enjoyed seeing what happened to them" is. Similarly, "the story was boring" is not helpful, but "the story has some issues with pacing; this part and that part drag on longer than they should" tells the writer what specifically they need to improve.
For rule number five, I would remove the request for people not to review genres they don't like, and simply request that they acknowledge this when giving feedback. People who don't normally read a particular genre can still have a valuable perspective. Besides that, trying out a new genre could wind up making the reviewer more interested in reading other works in the genre.
For rule number six, I agree that the group should primarily be focused on original content for future J-Novel contests. However, I would like to see an exception carved out for certain situations. Let's say you're considering entering the contest, but you want to improve as a writer before you start working on your entry. Asking for feedback on a previous work of yours, even if it doesn't meet the contest criteria, should be allowed. Also, if someone is writing say a short story as a practice exercise before starting their competition entry, that should also be allowed. Basically, the purpose of the group is to help writers improve for future J-Novel contests, so content exceptions can be made as long as it furthers that goal.
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Hi there. I’m sorry you wound up in hospital again. Take care of yourself.
Thanks for reading through and taking the time to respond. It was greatly appreciated.
For rules 1 and 4 - Sounds good although I am wondering whether we need a separate piece on putting together constructive feedback. What I was trying to avoid making the hurdle too high so that people still feel empowered to comment.
Your feedback on rule number 6 makes sense - happy to consider works like short stories etc that may not qualify for future rounds of the competition.
We don’t want to become another writing group but can consider other works. I know some people have written short stories in the worlds of their novels for example.
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@Damon-Cavalchini Thank you again ^^
I was thinking people might be uncertain what to say when giving feedback, so it would be easier if we gave some concrete direction. We could definitely move it elsewhere and link to it with something like "if you aren't sure what kind of feedback writers are looking for, here are some examples." Oh, and it just occurred to me that you should suggest that writers can request specific things they would like feedback on. These can be included at the beginning or end of the work being submitted for review.
We of course want to remain focused on original light novels, but I think being as flexible and welcoming as possible is important, especially since we're just starting out. We definitely don't want people who are interested to sit on the sidelines because they feel hesitant, confused, or excluded.
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Only a few weeks away till the announcement of first round. How are we all feeling?
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@LeeroyCGNA pretty much resigned to not getting through to the second round because I'm getting less and less confident that what I wrote could really be described as a light novel.
I'm still confident it's a good story, though, even more so after one of my beta readers told the members of a book group she belongs to about it and they want to read it too (I've told them no while it's still in contention here), but is it the sort of thing JNC is looking for?
Anyway, as you say, it's only a few weeks now.
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@LeeroyCGNA I have done my best not to look at the work I submitted, because I am sure I would find errors that would get me upset. But then a friend got sick and she asked me to read it to her—which I was happy to do. Of course I immediately found an error that mangled a sentence and now i worry that I may have accidentally sent an older draft of story. So yeah, that’s how I am feeling right now. (I have made a little progress on my second volume, though—it’s slow, but progress).
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I’m a bit similar. Kind of resigned to missing out this time but with a much understanding of what I want to do for next time.
I haven’t gone back to re-read except to do some reference checks for another book set in the same world which would make up a submission for next time.
Oh - and I’ve been playing around with an idea for an Isekai because market forces rule and I actually think there’s a good(ish) tweak in there.
Luckily work has been insane the past couple months f weeks so I have managed to not obsess entirely about the results.
Whatever happens, I’m still glad I subbed and fully intend to sub again.
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Don't discount yourselves just yet, I'm damn sure that there's probably not many "finished" products that were submitted in the competition.
Fingers crossed that everyone here makes it through the first round at least. Best of luck all!
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Thanks. And best of luck to you too.
And everyone else on here.
It is funny. While I desperately want to get into the second round, I won’t be disappointed if I don’t. I’m just happy to be writing again.
The completed work was an interesting one. My second novel was 83,000 words because of the need to give it a clean ending.
Normally I would have split it in two but that left too many up in the air to be resolved in the sequel. It does have an “ending” point at the halfway mark but there’s more to come.
I almost did the part one and part two thing in the novel to show the break but changed my mind and let it flow as a single work.
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@Angelus said in JNC Writing Support Group:
@LeeroyCGNA pretty much resigned to not getting through to the second round because I'm getting less and less confident that what I wrote could really be described as a light novel.
I'm still confident it's a good story, though, even more so after one of my beta readers told the members of a book group she belongs to about it and they want to read it too (I've told them no while it's still in contention here), but is it the sort of thing JNC is looking for?
Anyway, as you say, it's only a few weeks now.
Pretty much identical here. I still think that what I wrote was the best it could be at the time, and I think the first half is really strong, but the more I think about the second half the more annoyed I get. I know I could have done better and I keep thinking of/coming up with subplots, foreshadowing, and mini character arcs that I want to go back and include.
I'm still confident I should get through the first round, but I'm less confident about the second than I was right after submission. I would definitely want to heavily edit/revise the manuscript to be as good as I know it should be before any sharing or publishing.
20 days to go.
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@Alfaerin I hope you are doing well, both in writing and in health!
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@jazzyjeoff said in JNC Writing Support Group:
@Alfaerin I hope you are doing well, both in writing and in health!
Seconding the best wishes for your health and fingers crossed we all make it through round one.
Now all I have to do is work out which March 31st it is before I start panicking (due to time zones - not temporal displacement).
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Although I've got some good ideas for an isekai story (well, I think they're good), I've instead gone ahead and made a solid start on the second volume of my competition entry. I've run into an issue about inclusivity, though.
I'm not worried too much about race because the abuse of the other sentient races of my world by humans is one of the major plot elements, it's more about gender and sexuality. The protag is a straight male and there is also a strong female character with whom he now has a relationship (whether he likes it or not) and of course he has associates who play minor roles, but the other major human characters who drive the plot will inevitably be various villains that he will encounter. This means that if I want to have more diverse characters, they will likely be bad people. So that leaves me with a dilemma - either I don't have diverse characters, or only the villains are diverse. Any thoughts, anyone?
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@Angelus said in JNC Writing Support Group:
Although I've got some good ideas for an isekai story (well, I think they're good), I've instead gone ahead and made a solid start on the second volume of my competition entry. I've run into an issue about inclusivity, though.
I'm not worried too much about race because the abuse of the other sentient races of my world by humans is one of the major plot elements, it's more about gender and sexuality. The protag is a straight male and there is also a strong female character with whom he now has a relationship (whether he likes it or not) and of course he has associates who play minor roles, but the other major human characters who drive the plot will inevitably be various villains that he will encounter. This means that if I want to have more diverse characters, they will likely be bad people. So that leaves me with a dilemma - either I don't have diverse characters, or only the villains are diverse. Any thoughts, anyone?
Ignorance. Other characters don't have to be villains if they have been raised on stereotypes or to see traits in certain ways. What sets villains apart, at least in something like racism or sexuality, is how wilful the intent behind it is or how strong it is. That is not necessarily true in reality but it can be played on in fiction.
Alternatively, you could have the villains be deceptively friendly or understanding so they seem like allies. Then when their true colours are revealed the betrayal hits all the harder.
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@Angelus It isn't always easy—but, personally, as long as the characters don't lean into negative stereotypes, I think it’s okay. I mean a totally badass villain can be cool and not demeaning. Conversely there are totally straight heroes that are totally cringe.
I know that everyone doesn't think that way—there are some folks that just want to be offended—not much you can do about those. And there are folks that will feel that your story somehow means you are sweeping with a broad brush and saying every situation is the same.
There is also the issue of tokinism—I mean do folks really need to know the sexuality of all your characters? If it really isn't intrinsic to the character, then don't shoehorn it in, but if adds to the character’s depth, then go for it!(Of course, this is coming from someone who hasn't written that much. But I did have a same-sex couple in my favorite Tearmoon fan-fic—I think it worked—it was mostly subtle and sweet —and helped define the characters as well as her parents—didn’t stop me from getting a couple mild gags out of it—but I their relationship matched in tone with the straight characters. The characters started as antagonists but ended up on the side of the angels in the end).
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@QuixoticHorizon said in JNC Writing Support Group:
Alternatively, you could have the villains be deceptively friendly or understanding so they seem like allies. Then when their true colours are revealed the betrayal hits all the harder.
I used that ploy in volume 1 so I thought I'd have some plain ol' antagonists this time around. And I think I get what you mean, that a person can act morally in terms of their own beliefs and still do bad things without actually being a "villain" as such.
@jazzyjeoff said in JNC Writing Support Group:
There is also the issue of tokinism—I mean do folks really need to know the sexuality of all your characters? If it really isn't intrinsic to the character, then don't shoehorn it in, but if adds to the character’s depth, then go for it!
Aye, there's the rub, as they say. I create a world in which I make it clear that relationships of any kind are permitted, but then if I put in a "bad" queer character it's reinforcing outdated stereotypes, if I put in a "good" queer character it's tokenism, and if I don't put one in at all it's heteronormative. To continue the Shakespearean theme, I'm hoist with my own petard!
I need to think about this a lot more, at least I have several other chapters to write before I need to introduce the first new antagonist.
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This is just how I would approach it which doesn’t mean it is the best way. I think this one comes down a bit to show - not tell. You can say it is a world that accepts all relationships but in this case it would be good to show it (without the need for characters to be good or evil).
Have some side characters leave a bar together or have one your main characters pass a couple in the in hallway of an inn or something. Just a few little drops like that.
That way the relationships of main characters are about how they interact rather than the relationship they are in.
Little drops normalising the relations/action of people in your world means it is not just the relationships between the main characters that readers see.
Hopefully this makes sense. It can be a sensitive issue but you know your characters and what is right from them.
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How are y’all doing. Just finished watching the most recent episode of Apothecary Diaries (wonderful!), which leaves me counting down to the next episode of Frieren—I am going to feel a little lost when their seasons’ end (open to replacement suggestions!).
Watching them has me convinced that most great stories have their fair share of plotholes—but if the reader (viewer) becomes sufficiently invested, a lot can be overlooked—even for a story that is pretty smart. -
Hello fellow writers! I was curious about something and figured I'd ask here: on average how long does it take you to finish writing a novel? I was amazed when reading the competition thread that some people started when the contest was announced and managed to write 80-100k words!
The story I submitted for the contest was written on paper, in script form, over the course of ~4 years. Converting it to book form took maybe 6 months (66k words). I was less into completing my work at the time I started this despite having so many ideas I want to convey.
The second story I wrote, the first half took me 8 months (9 chapters, 30k words) and I'm still working on the second half, but am at the 2 month mark. For the first half at least, I already had the ending in mind and wrote around that.
I have a different story that would suit this kind of contest better, but even if I start now I'm confident it won't be done by the deadline. I'll get to it after the other one.
