What exactly IS an isekai?
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@sorvani said in What exactly IS an isekai?:
@Valanduin said in What exactly IS an isekai?:
In Conqueror from a doing kingdom Yuri was displaced in time (or at least it appears that way)
Can you reference this in a book? I never got that feeling. Instead it was reincarnation into a parallel earth
Nothing specific points to the far future besides a fantasy looking world actually being the extremely far future being a surprisingly common plot point in anime, but there isn't any stronger evidence that I am aware of for the parallel earth explanation. It could still be either though.
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@Arcene you cannot quote a spoiler and also have your spoiler work. Limitation of NodeBB platform or the specific plugin.
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@sorvani Ah, I forgot about that, thanks
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I'm gonna give my opinions on the the 3 JNC titles I've read that started as isekai (How do you properly indicate the plural of that, or is it like sheep?) But ended up just being time travel. Spoiler tagged for the obvious reason.
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I'm here to throw a wrench and claim that any definition one provides for "isekai" is socially constructed knowledge. It is not descriptive of an objective reality, but proscriptive of our beliefs about a reality. In this way any definition is an act of negotiation, in flux, and will change in time. What is/is not isekai is a subjective question.
This idea is inspired by Bruno Latour. He argues that when scientists examined the mummy of Ramses and declared he had died of Tuberculosis, this is an anachronism. Ramses lived 3000 years before modern scientists discovered (or invented, or socially constructed) the notion of a bacterial disease called Tuberculosis in 1882. For the Egyptians at the time of his death, there was no known existence of tuberculosis and he would have been said to have died of something else.
This can apply to our definitions of isekai as well. In this time and place we all have beliefs about isekai and what qualities a story needs to be called that. At different times, those qualities, which are socially dependent, could be different and something would not be called an Isekai. For example The Chronicles of Narnia are not Isekai because there was no concept of isekai when it was written, even though it is a story about a portal to another world.
For us right now, we are in the process of constructing beliefs about what counts as isekai. Person A says it has to be a parallel dimension. Person B says it can be another planet in the same dimension. Person C says it can be the same planet but at different times. And Person D claims if one takes a boat ride from Shanghai to San Fransisco, the protagonist's world is sufficiently changed- it's an isekai.
Even though these four imagined people all use different definitions, they can neither be right or wrong. Right/wrong is not applicable, because Isekai only exists when someone imagines the definition for it. As soon as you think of your personal conditions, you consider that story an Isekai or not and no one can tell you otherwise. It's a made up idea anyways!
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@Outinthegardener Probably the most common sense thing I've heard, but I will disagree that an older story can't be classified as an isekai "because it's old". I mean you can map out the history of the differing genres of fiction over the centuries, and doing that would let perhaps say when the genre that would become Isekai came about, but in the end, it's just a label.
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@Paul-Nebeling It can't be classified as an isekai when it was written, not because it's old, but because the concept of isekai didn't exist. It can be classified as an isekai later, once the concept of isekai is invented. The text doesn't change- it's the same object. But the conception of that object changes.
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@Outinthegardener Ok. Different tack. Without fluency in Japanese sufficient to understand the etymology of the Japanese word "Isekai" I feel like we are just spinning our wheels. The Japanese consider Mark Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court to be an early example of an isekai. Given that, I would say that anything written after that work could (but not should) be called an isekai. It almost seems like the genre only applies to "light novels", which is a poorly defined (if you even want to call it "defined") term and "anime" which is almost exclusively used to describe a type of Japanese animation to the exclusion of animation made by any other country.
Challenge question: Is RWBY an anime?
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@Paul-Nebeling Double quotes (") prior to the spoiler thingies also breaks spoilers...
All your libraries are belong to us. | Aub Rozemyne | Those who do not read shall not eat.
Help me, Satomi-san. You're my only hope. | Fight! Yurika! | WW[R|S]D
Croquettes, Baguettes, and Books, oh my! -
@Geezer-Weasalopes Fixed.
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@Paul-Nebeling said in What exactly IS an isekai?:
@Geezer-Weasalopes Fixed.
Now that I've read the spoilered text...
Gotta agree with you on pretty much all of that.
Especially the bad taste in one's mouth one. -
re: realist
@Paul-Nebeling said in What exactly IS an isekai?:
It almost seems like the genre only applies to "light novels"
I mean, that is essentially where the whole concept came from. IIRC isekai only really sort of came into being because so many authors started to write using transported to another world as their concept in a very short period of time to the point where some writing contests banned it from the submissions. Naturally as anime move further and further into the adapt any light novel phase it's transitioned into both the manga and anime space. Light novels that came out before the whole isekai classification even really became a thing would have been classified as either some form of fantasy or sci-fi depending on how the story itself went.
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@jpwong There are still fantasy and other non-isekai titles that are out of this world. I edited this to add some titles.
- Altina the Sword Princess fantasy\rom-com
- Invaders of the Rokujouma sci-fi\slice of life (Not enough comedy for me to call it a rom-com.)
- Paying to Win in a VRMMO self-explanatory
- Infinite Dendrogram The other VRMMO
- Otherside Picnic I just can't call this one an isekai in spite of the Otherside.
- Ao Oni horror
- Occultic;nine weird, but not an isekai
- My Big Sister lives in a Fantasy World I don't know what to call it, but not an isekai.
- Infinite Stratos mecha set somewhere but not an isekai
- If it's for my Daughter, I'd even defeat a Demon Lord Say what you want about it, but it's NOT an isekai.
- Demon King Diamaou massive harem, lots of magic, not an isekai
- Clockwork Planet more sci-fi than anything else
- Walking my Second Path in Life I want to call it a rom-com, but a very weak one.
- Yume Nikki just plain weird
I'm tired. Any others? (I gave up trying to read every title years ago.)
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@Paul-Nebeling Not saying there aren't, just the rise of isekai as a genre word basically started up when there was a wave of authors who decided to use the summoned/transferred/reborn template to kick start their (largely RPG type) stories. This is why we have the meme of truck-kun. The vast majority of isekai titles don't even really make use of the isekai theme itself except as a way to introduce Japanese food into the story.
@Paul-Nebeling said in What exactly IS an isekai?:
Infinite Dendrogram The other VRMMO
Not going to go through the whole catalogue, but a quick shot through the series I'm following that you didn't already list, I'm pretty sure these ones are not isekai (beyond some/most? of them taking place in other worlds)
- The Exiled Noble Rises as the Holy King: Befriending Fluffy Beasts and a Holy Maiden with My Ultimate Cheat Skill!
- Magic Stone Gourmet: Eating Magical Power Made Me The Strongest
- Rebuild World
- A Late-Start Tamer’s Laid-Back Life
- The Bloodline
- The Underdog of the Eight Greater Tribes
Here's a question though, are things like D-Genesis or Dungeon Busters just fantasy stories? They're kind of like reverse isekai but also not. Before the rise of isekai as a genre unto itself I would have declared these types of stories a mix of scifi and fantasy, but I'm wondering what other people think?
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@jpwong said in What exactly IS an isekai?:
Here's a question though, are things like D-Genesis or Dungeon Busters just fantasy stories? They're kind of like reverse isekai but also not. Before the rise of isekai as a genre unto itself I would have declared these types of stories a mix of scifi and fantasy, but I'm wondering what other people think?
Not isekai at all, IMHO. SF/Fantasy mix, probably closest to urban fantasy - classic urban fantasy was current-day city with magic/elves, this is current-day city with magic and RPGs.
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@Paul-Nebeling If we're titles that are out of this world you forgot First and Last Idol which is not just out of this world but out of this galaxy.
It is so weird that it became the bar for which I measure the bizarreness of other series.
“There’s always a story. It’s all stories, really. The sun coming up every day is a story. Everything’s got a story in it. Change the story, change the world.” ― Terry Pratchett, A Hat Full of Sky
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@jpwong Without expounding on your spoiler, that would certainly be a new twist.
PS The Bloodline was pretty good, if a bit short.
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@Lily-Garden I was getting sleepy, but my comment on that one was going to be that the author was tripping on acid.
