Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???
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@novurdim said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
I'm also occasionally up for some cheap wish-fulfilment self-insert fantasy, but the insane and overwhelming number of those clones in the ln-market makes you want to be a jerk about it sometimes, doesn't it? I know it does.
Actually, no, it does not. There are plenty of more healthy responses to the saturation of wish-fulfillment isekai in the LN market than to be a jerk about other people's tastes. Promoting titles like Kokoro Connect as a "if you're tired of the usual, try this!" statement is a great response, without needing to slam those who like "the usual".
With all due respect, the only thing that makes you want to be a jerk about wish-fulfillment isekai is, well, wanting to be a jerk.
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@stardf29 said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
With all due respect, the only thing that makes you want to be a jerk about wish-fulfillment isekai is, well, wanting to be a jerk.
No respect taken, your horse is too high. I'll just drop it before everyone offended turn it into a mess, I did say what I wanted to, even if relatively rudely. And since I fully understand what I'm doing, there's no real point in preaching.
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Maybe I'll copy a response I posted to a curiouscat question here, it seems relevant:
I get a lot of opinions like “I don’t want to read something with all that drama.
Gosh, it's like I'm in a kindergarten. I really hope people with silly reasons like that are either vocal minority or you are simply yet to reach the intended audience for non-isekai titles with a stronger narrative. It's almost like they are saying "I only read intentionally bad literature, please don't bother with anything decent".
My resopnse:
A lot (and I mean a lot) of people love reality television. Such is the nature of modern media. If that is upsetting to you I have some nice escapist novels for you to read. -
@novurdim The bigger point is that IRL is a minority in Japanese literature. It's just not what's popular. It does exist, but is by far a minority. I'm going strictly from memory here (it's been exactly a year and six months today since I moved back to the US), so the numbers may be a bit skewed. However, the bookstores I frequented were overwhelmingly stocked with manga and light novels. My primary interest in Japanese books is history, so this was a bit annoying at times. However, outside of specialty bookstores, the average layout would be approximately 1/3 manga, another 1/3 LN (primarily focusing on whatever the current trend is (more on this in a second)), and then assorted general interest to include things like gardening or my coveted historical stories. The Kinokuniya on Shinjuku san chome was an exception to this, but that place was absolutely HUGE and subject matter was sorted primarily by floor. Even then if you took into consideration that one floor was for magazines and another was for Western (primarily English language) books, it followed the same basic pattern.
Back to LN's. The assortment follows trends in what people are reading. The first couple of months I was there, it seemed like every featured book was "Your Name" or a similar title. However, if you looked at the shelves where standard fare was stocked, practically everything was isekai or battle harem in some form or another. I literally spent two weekends hunting for "Love, Chunibyo & Other Delusions" in order to get them before leaving the country. Outside of specific genre, LN's are not very diverse. The "overwhelming number of those clones" is what drives the market in both original Japanese and English translation.
This doesn't mean they're not popular, but not popular enough to beat out the other titles for market share. Publishers print what they expect to make money. In a sense this comes down to culture as well.
As an anime fanatic, when I went over I expected that anime and related were going to be on the edge of society. I was shocked to find out that anime is the vast majority of prime time TV, so I asked a couple of Japanese about it. I'd always heard that anime was all for NEET or hikikimori and outcasts, so it didn't make sense. As it turns out, in reality, Japanese prefer it over live TV because there is a degree of separation from real life, aka it doesn't feel so serious as a recorded broadcast.
This doesn't mean that more realistic LN's don't exist, but the culture that's supplying this specific demand (LN) isn't really looking for something that reflects everyday life. For that matter, there are even book covers (a lot of them very nice looking and made from woven fabric) that can be purchased in the standard LN and manga size so people can hide the cover of what they're reading on the train because they don't want it known that they're reading an ecchi battle harem title on the way to work.
Between the lack of titles, and further reduced by titles which readers outside of Japan would find interesting enough to be popular/profitable, IRL is going to be a very fickle market. This isn't to say that there aren't some titles which may work, but rather that titles which aren't supported by the Westernized version of otaku culture are going to be exceptionally risky. For the most part, and I may be way off base here, that Westernized otaku culture is the target audience of JNC. Again that's only my own personal conjecture.
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One more argument about Escapism:
Some people like to escape into lives that are worse off than their own. This isn't the only reason to seek out drama in lit, but it is one. The soap opera aspects, seeing people in better spheres of wealth still unhappy sometimes makes people feel better. This holiday season, a lot of people will be watching Scrooge to fulfill a desire to see how someone who is rich in money isn't better off than them in many other aspects of life (and in fact has to give more of his time and money to regain that humanity).
So that drama you and I may like is also someone's escapism. It's their sour grapes fulfillment sometimes.
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@sam-pinansky said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
A lot (and I mean a lot) of people love reality television. Such is the nature of modern media. If that is upsetting to you I have some nice escapist novels for you to read.
Escaping to isekai novels from the lack of good LNs of the other genres sounds oddly fitting.
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@jaquobus Good to know, that actually changes my mind a bit. I might check it out after all.
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Well, I went and came back to find the topic flooded.
Anyhow~-
To clarify my intentions related to this thread.
The curious cat questions kinda gave the impression that Kokoro Connect is being rejected due to the past incident and it was continuation to some sort previous talk (either here or on discord...dunno)
So, I just wanted to see if that's true
After all, I know people here prefers light and fun reads -
I wanna address a few things I found weird....
a) There is nothing called body-switching genre. it's not a genre, it's like Isekai, a trope.
b) NOT ALL NON-FANTASY ARE SLICE OF LIFE or of the same genre...
"Haruhi Suzumiya" and "Love, Chunibyo & Other Delusions" are not of the same genre as Kokoro Connect.
Chunnibyou is romcom with a bit of peter pan syndrome (not about growing up, but enjoying the moment before growing up)
Haven't read Haruhi past anime yet ('cuz YP won't reprint that for people who came to the part late like me), but if it stays like the anime so it's more like meta comedy than coming of age... (There are moments where I think it can be coming of age, but never explored enough)
They all are of different genres.
And like how someone went ahead and asked Sam for more slice of life and the answer was there are fantasy slice of life for him to read (which is true)
Don't lump all non-fantasy together.
They are all different.- Now, I gotta wonder.
If people here don't want real drama, why is bunny so popular?
Just recency effect thing?
Why is a non-fantasy drama title higher than romcom and comedy titles on the license suggestions? just cuz it has anime this season not 2-5 years ago?
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I like Bunny, despite not generally being a drama fan because the two main characters really caught me as being real. Their interactions feel much less contrived than the typical drama stuff. They don't feel forced to be dramatic or comedic, they simply are.
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@flarecde
Tbh, I can say that about majority of coming of age LNs like Monogatari or Sakurasou or Oregairu or Kokoro Connect.
Ultimately, these novels all are about characters interactions. -
@bloodygaikotsu said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
- Now, I gotta wonder.
If people here don't want real drama, why is bunny so popular?
People like real drama, Oregairu for example is something like TOP5 in terms of sales per volume among LN. But people like only really good drama, any even not that big mishaps and bits of bad writing breaks immersion greatly.
So in the end, real-life drama is just significantly harder to write, and LN writers in general are not so skilled. - Now, I gotta wonder.
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@darkurg2 said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
People like real drama, Oregairu for example is something like TOP5 in terms of sales per volume among LN.
In Japan, where Kokoro Connect also sold quite well. And here we see people talking how they won't give KC a chance because "drama". How would you discern "real drama" from "bad drama" if you don't read it?
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@novurdim Well, yeah my bad, I care more about Japanese side of things.
For Western side though - it's just the way things are, novels with comics-like or other "light" ideas and tropes are much more popular in comparison with drama and/or psychological ones. -
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I'm talking about JNC forums atm.
Oregairu was one of the most requested novel titles for YP BTW. -
about drama and serious genres and LNs.
When you look at the series that started the craze or started along with it, you will find heaps of drama and psychological that offered philosophical elements, tragedy or clear important messages...many titles that really spoke to people. (Not saying that they were only that, but they were a major faction. Even old Fantasy and Isekai LN are different than modern fantasy which became more associated and related to games and gamers)
Boogiepop, Zaregoto, Welcome to NHK, Kino no tabi, All You Need Is Kill, Hanbun no Tsuki ga Noboru Sora, etc.
(Yeah, a lot of these names ain't LNs technically, cuz there was no LN imprint when they were released like NHK and Zaregoto and wereally published by general literature imprint. However, their effect on LNs just can't be ignored or denied.)
Then what changed?
The demographic audience shifted, people grew up.
that's why from the same roots of LNs, there's a whole new medium growing for older audience that covers similar genres of that old titles.
Some of the old-timer LN authors started to write for that medium like Kino no tabi.
Some of the LN authors who couldn't do well due to the fact they were a bit too serious also started to write for it like Eiji Mikage.
Many authors do switch between the two mediums.Probably, the most famous title of that genre would be Biblia Koshodou no Jiken Techou.
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@bloodygaikotsu said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
Many authors do switch between the two mediums.
I always find it interesting when an author does this.
Like the person that wrote "Killing Slimes for 300 years" also now writes a realistic romantic college story about a boy dating a NEET.
Here's his complete list of works.
https://bookwalker.jp/author/1352/?acode=WpfPW3yk
If you look at his works, he's about 50/50 drama / rom com vs Fantasy.
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@terrence
One of the most popular Drama/Romance title rn, My Tomorrow, Your Yesterday, is written by Shomin Sample author but under different pen name. -
I'm just not that big into body-swap stories so it's rather low on my to-read, I'll give it a shot eventually.
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Kokoro Connect is the best thing J-Novel has licensed yet. Though that is not say that their other series are not good. (they are good. I also enjoy Amagi Brilliant Park). I am hoping for a print release of it and new licenses similiar to it, at least same genre.
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@makohime
Don't wanna to be the bearer of bad news but I don't think they are selling enough for Sam to print them (or try with the genre even tho I prefer teen drama over fantasy action) -
@makohime said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
Though that is not say that their other series are not good.
It's okay, it's true that most JNC series aren't... well, aren't all that good, to say the least, nothing can be done about it. But as BG has said above, isekai or at least full-on fantasy seem to be the only things current JNC-community buys so, if nothing changes, licenses like KC are going to be extremely rare on JNC. Let's just hope other publishers won't follow suit.
