Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion

LurkingMcLurk

Hannelore’s Fifth Year at the Royal Academy Volume 3 just released in Japanese and based on the advert at the back it appears that Volume 4 is tentatively scheduled for 2027.

Everbright

Forgive me if the answer is somewhere else on the forum, but has J-novel given any indication when(/IF??!!) they're going to translate SSC3? It's been over a year since SSC2 was translated and like a like a year and a half since it was released in Japan. P L E A S E, it's basically the only reason I'm subscribed now.

My worst fear is that they just decided to like. Not. Since the switch in management.

GeorgeMTO

@Everbright management hasn't changed since 2021 when Kadokawa bought a majority stake, and even then it's still had the same CEO since it was founded. I think they've felt justified in jumping ahead for the Hannelore volumes when possible, but I think SSC3 might be waiting for the fanbooks to catch up. So possibly not until after fanbook 9.

cureClover

@Everbright Just letting you know that if you don't read any other J-novel series with you subscription, you can cancel your subscription and just preorder SSC3 when the prepub starts. This also gives you access to the prepubs.

LurkingMcLurk

Character Poll 5: https://www.tobooks.jp/booklove/vote/chara.html
Costume Poll 1: https://www.tobooks.jp/booklove/vote/concept.html

wanderer_1204

I wonder if the next to be translated will be fanbook 9 or SSC3 or H5Y v3.

I am personally looking forward to some long form translations like one of the latter.

LurkingMcLurk

@wanderer_1204 said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

I wonder if the next to be translated will be fanbook 9 or SSC3 or H5Y v3.

I am personally looking forward to some long form translations like one of the latter.

My expectation is that they’ll either do (H5Y3 -> FB9 -> SSC3 -> FB10) or (FB9 -> H5Y3 -> SSC3 -> FB10).

spoiler

Libri Liberorum

@JonaStubbe said in Bookworm (Manga) Part 4 Vol 7 Discussion:

@Libri-Liberorum said in Bookworm (Manga) Part 4 Vol 7 Discussion:

@Arcene said in Bookworm (Manga) Part 4 Vol 7 Discussion:

I haven't given Angelica enough credit (well I always credit her for this, bust still) - she at least knows her shortcomings and listens to orders - all the other apprentice knights seem to want to fight a superior opponent on even terms. Aren't nobles supposed to be cunning schemers? Are knights just excluded from this?

Ferdinand teaches Rozemyne that this is so, but the course of events shows that only a few are cunning schemers.

I mean both can be right in the sense that the number of vicious schemers might be somewhat low, but someone who stands out as much as Rozemyne (or Ferdinand himself) does, will come into contact with an outsized fraction of them.

I'm going to discuss vicious/cunning schemers, but I'm moving to the "general discussion" forum.

Who are the schemers and how do we rank them? First, the S and A tiers:

Ferdinand: He played the game of thrones and won (although by proxy.) He earned the title "Lord of Evil." Too many other examples to list. He clearly earns the #1 spot.
Georgine: Played a long and deep game to seize Ehrenfest and would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for that meddling kid.
Raublut: Went deep cover for decades and masterminded a nearly successful coup.
Grausam Giebe Gerlach: Successfully pulled off significant operations under the nose of Ferdinand leaving too little evidence to be prosecuted. Georgine's right hand man.
Rozemyne. Also plays the game of thrones, and wins by proxy. Has absolute power over the Zent. An excellent merchant. Skillfully manipulates Wilfried to motivate him to succeed at his debut. Creator of novel ditter strategies. Successfully invades a greater duchy at short notice. Sinister shadow behind the scenes in the quest to make more Ferdinand merch. (And more.) I was going to put her in a lower tier, but listing her accomplishments persuaded me to put her here.

Some difficult to rank ones, as we lack information about how good their plots were:

Gervasio: How much of the coup was his doing, and how much was just being carried by Raublut?
Leonzio: He does a fine job of manipulating Detlinde, but that is playing on super easy mode. I don't think we really see his abilities being challenged.
The former First Prince: Succeeded in a double regicide, but lost the subsequent war.
The former Fourth Prince: Succeeded in assassinating the Third Prince and almost all his family, but lost in the war.
Aub Eisenriech who attempted a coup 200 years ago but failed.

Some moderately good schemers, who play on a smaller scale:

Sylvester eventually gets the better of his mother. (Also his sister, but that mostly isn't his scheming.)
Former Aub Klassenberg: successfully gets the bloody purge he wanted.
Justus: Master spy (but also a goofball.)
Hartmut: Justus version 2.0. Constantly manipulating opinions in favour of Rozemyne, even when she doesn't want it.
Clarissa: Arranges her own marriage, and co-conspires with Hartmut.
Brunhilde: Arranges her own marriage, and is a fine social manipulator.
Magdalena: Marries who she wants and thereby ends a war.
Anastasius: Arranges his own marriage while dodging a civil war.
Adolphine: Seizes an opportunity to unarrange her marriage. Pushes her brother to attempt to become Aub to shore up her own position.
Count Bindewald: The plan to kidnap Myne wasn't terrible, but it didn't account for Ferdinand.
Freida: tried to poach Myne, but failed. Excellent merchant.

Schemers whose schemes were just bad: (Mere failure doesn't get you into this category.)

Detlinde: Thinks she is a genius, but is an idiot who gets manipulated by everyone around her.
Arno: Really annoyed Ferdinand for the sake of petty revenge on Fran. Any plan which really annoys Ferdinand is a bad plan.
Bezewanst: Only ever succeeded at anything because of his sister.
Brother Egmont: Went all in as a lacky of bad schemers. Died.
Gloria Viscountess Dahldolf: Was attempting to supplant her husband's heir apparent with her own son. Failed conspirator against Rozemyne.
Immanual: tries to get Rozemyne to supplant his boss, the High Bishop of Yurgenschmidt. Offends everyone.

I'm sure that there will be some that other people think should be on this list which I've missed, and some on the list which it could be argued shouldn't be. (I've listed a few commoners here, which isn't really relevant to scheming as a feature of noble culture.)

Valanduin

@Libri-Liberorum said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

@JonaStubbe said in Bookworm (Manga) Part 4 Vol 7 Discussion:

@Libri-Liberorum said in Bookworm (Manga) Part 4 Vol 7 Discussion:

@Arcene said in Bookworm (Manga) Part 4 Vol 7 Discussion:

I haven't given Angelica enough credit (well I always credit her for this, bust still) - she at least knows her shortcomings and listens to orders - all the other apprentice knights seem to want to fight a superior opponent on even terms. Aren't nobles supposed to be cunning schemers? Are knights just excluded from this?

Ferdinand teaches Rozemyne that this is so, but the course of events shows that only a few are cunning schemers.

I mean both can be right in the sense that the number of vicious schemers might be somewhat low, but someone who stands out as much as Rozemyne (or Ferdinand himself) does, will come into contact with an outsized fraction of them.

I'm going to discuss vicious/cunning schemers, but I'm moving to the "general discussion" forum.

Who are the schemers and how do we rank them? First, the S and A tiers:

Ferdinand: He played the game of thrones and won (although by proxy.) He earned the title "Lord of Evil." Too many other examples to list. He clearly earns the #1 spot.

Georgine: Played a long and deep game to seize Ehrenfest and would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for that meddling kid.

Raublut: Went deep cover for decades and masterminded a nearly successful coup.

Grausam Giebe Gerlach: Successfully pulled off significant operations under the nose of Ferdinand leaving too little evidence to be prosecuted. Georgine's right hand man.

Rozemyne. Also plays the game of thrones, and wins by proxy. Has absolute power over the Zent. An excellent merchant. Skillfully manipulates Wilfried to motivate him to succeed at his debut. Creator of novel ditter strategies. Successfully invades a greater duchy at short notice. Sinister shadow behind the scenes in the quest to make more Ferdinand merch. (And more.) I was going to put her in a lower tier, but listing her accomplishments persuaded me to put her here.

Some difficult to rank ones, as we lack information about how good their plots were:

Gervasio: How much of the coup was his doing, and how much was just being carried by Raublut?

Leonzio: He does a fine job of manipulating Detlinde, but that is playing on super easy mode. I don't think we really see his abilities being challenged.

The former First Prince: Succeeded in a double regicide, but lost the subsequent war.

The former Fourth Prince: Succeeded in assassinating the Third Prince and almost all his family, but lost in the war.

Aub Eisenriech who attempted a coup 200 years ago but failed.

Some moderately good schemers, who play on a smaller scale:

Sylvester eventually gets the better of his mother. (Also his sister, but that mostly isn't his scheming.)

Former Aub Klassenberg: successfully gets the bloody purge he wanted.

Justus: Master spy (but also a goofball.)

Hartmut: Justus version 2.0. Constantly manipulating opinions in favour of Rozemyne, even when she doesn't want it.

Clarissa: Arranges her own marriage, and co-conspires with Hartmut.

Brunhilde: Arranges her own marriage, and is a fine social manipulator.

Magdalena: Marries who she wants and thereby ends a war.

Anastasius: Arranges his own marriage while dodging a civil war.

Adolphine: Seizes an opportunity to unarrange her marriage. Pushes her brother to attempt to become Aub to shore up her own position.

Count Bindewald: The plan to kidnap Myne wasn't terrible, but it didn't account for Ferdinand.

Freida: tried to poach Myne, but failed. Excellent merchant.

Schemers whose schemes were just bad: (Mere failure doesn't get you into this category.)

Detlinde: Thinks she is a genius, but is an idiot who gets manipulated by everyone around her.

Arno: Really annoyed Ferdinand for the sake of petty revenge on Fran. Any plan which really annoys Ferdinand is a bad plan.

Bezewanst: Only ever succeeded at anything because of his sister.

Brother Egmont: Went all in as a lacky of bad schemers. Died.

Gloria Viscountess Dahldolf: Was attempting to supplant her husband's heir apparent with her own son. Failed conspirator against Rozemyne.

Immanual: tries to get Rozemyne to supplant his boss, the High Bishop of Yurgenschmidt. Offends everyone.

I'm sure that there will be some that other people think should be on this list which I've missed, and some on the list which it could be argued shouldn't be. (I've listed a few commoners here, which isn't really relevant to scheming as a feature of noble culture.)

Aub Drewanchel might get a dishonorable mention for his marriage arranging. He arranges a marriage for Adolphine, one of the most capable candidates for succeeding him, a marriage to a power hungry idiot who can't be trusted with any authority whatsoever, propping him up and putting him on track to inherit the throne, before said idiot squanders his chance to inherit the throne, and the idiot also constantly mistreated Adolphine, leading to her divorcing. All of these attempts to arrange the marriage secured no political capital for his duchy, made it much harder to find a replacement husband for Adolphine, and has apparently disqualified her from inheriting the position of Aub when she is apparently the best candidate. They did end up getting some territorial gains, but it will have an upkeep cost to keep it supplied with mana, which Adolphine won't be contributing to as she was mad a giebe, and it is not apparent if they are particularly valuable or have important resources.

Marrying his daughter to a royal wasn't a bad idea in the first place, but Sigiswald is so obviously terrible that everyone who knew him should have been trying to keep him from the throne and Aub Drewanchel should have investigated that before arranging a marriage to him

Arcene

@Libri-Liberorum The biggest one you left out is Veronica, although I suppose that could count as tyranny more than scheming, still she had Ehrenfest under her thumb, and old man Leisegang seemed crafty enough.

I initially brought this up because Knights don't seem to be schemers, from your list the only schemer that's a knight is Raublut, so maybe he deserves more credit, too.

The only other knight I recall actually scheming at all is Eckhart although he's just very pro suicide attacks, he does admit he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, though, so now I don't know what to think.

Almond Magnum

@Valanduin

I'd say the chief reason Aub Drewanchel should get a dishonorable mention is how badly he bungled Ortwin's prospects. He was too hasty, and opened his mouth before gathering all the intelligence he needed.

@Arcene said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

@Libri-Liberorum The biggest one you left out is Veronica, although I suppose that could count as tyranny more than scheming, still she had Ehrenfest under her thumb, and old man Leisegang seemed crafty enough.

You say that because you're looking at the end result, but she didn't start as a tyrant. She started as an underdog in enemy territory. Her mother was dead, her older brother was dead, her father, at best, resented her, her stepfamily hated her, her little brother was nothing but dead weight. And from there, she climbed to a position where she could be a tyrant. She must have been quite the schemer before she got old and complacent.

@Libri-Liberorum said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

@JonaStubbe said in Bookworm (Manga) Part 4 Vol 7 Discussion:

@Libri-Liberorum said in Bookworm (Manga) Part 4 Vol 7 Discussion:

@Arcene said in Bookworm (Manga) Part 4 Vol 7 Discussion:

I haven't given Angelica enough credit (well I always credit her for this, bust still) - she at least knows her shortcomings and listens to orders - all the other apprentice knights seem to want to fight a superior opponent on even terms. Aren't nobles supposed to be cunning schemers? Are knights just excluded from this?

Ferdinand teaches Rozemyne that this is so, but the course of events shows that only a few are cunning schemers.

I mean both can be right in the sense that the number of vicious schemers might be somewhat low, but someone who stands out as much as Rozemyne (or Ferdinand himself) does, will come into contact with an outsized fraction of them.

I'm going to discuss vicious/cunning schemers, but I'm moving to the "general discussion" forum.

Who are the schemers and how do we rank them? First, the S and A tiers:

Ferdinand: He played the game of thrones and won (although by proxy.) He earned the title "Lord of Evil." Too many other examples to list. He clearly earns the #1 spot.

Georgine: Played a long and deep game to seize Ehrenfest and would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for that meddling kid.

Raublut: Went deep cover for decades and masterminded a nearly successful coup.

Grausam Giebe Gerlach: Successfully pulled off significant operations under the nose of Ferdinand leaving too little evidence to be prosecuted. Georgine's right hand man.

Rozemyne. Also plays the game of thrones, and wins by proxy. Has absolute power over the Zent. An excellent merchant. Skillfully manipulates Wilfried to motivate him to succeed at his debut. Creator of novel ditter strategies. Successfully invades a greater duchy at short notice. Sinister shadow behind the scenes in the quest to make more Ferdinand merch. (And more.) I was going to put her in a lower tier, but listing her accomplishments persuaded me to put her here.

Some difficult to rank ones, as we lack information about how good their plots were:

Gervasio: How much of the coup was his doing, and how much was just being carried by Raublut?

Leonzio: He does a fine job of manipulating Detlinde, but that is playing on super easy mode. I don't think we really see his abilities being challenged.

The former First Prince: Succeeded in a double regicide, but lost the subsequent war.

The former Fourth Prince: Succeeded in assassinating the Third Prince and almost all his family, but lost in the war.

Aub Eisenriech who attempted a coup 200 years ago but failed.

Some moderately good schemers, who play on a smaller scale:

Sylvester eventually gets the better of his mother. (Also his sister, but that mostly isn't his scheming.)

Former Aub Klassenberg: successfully gets the bloody purge he wanted.

Justus: Master spy (but also a goofball.)

Hartmut: Justus version 2.0. Constantly manipulating opinions in favour of Rozemyne, even when she doesn't want it.

Clarissa: Arranges her own marriage, and co-conspires with Hartmut.

Brunhilde: Arranges her own marriage, and is a fine social manipulator.

Magdalena: Marries who she wants and thereby ends a war.

Anastasius: Arranges his own marriage while dodging a civil war.

Adolphine: Seizes an opportunity to unarrange her marriage. Pushes her brother to attempt to become Aub to shore up her own position.

Count Bindewald: The plan to kidnap Myne wasn't terrible, but it didn't account for Ferdinand.

Freida: tried to poach Myne, but failed. Excellent merchant.

Schemers whose schemes were just bad: (Mere failure doesn't get you into this category.)

Detlinde: Thinks she is a genius, but is an idiot who gets manipulated by everyone around her.

Arno: Really annoyed Ferdinand for the sake of petty revenge on Fran. Any plan which really annoys Ferdinand is a bad plan.

Bezewanst: Only ever succeeded at anything because of his sister.

Brother Egmont: Went all in as a lacky of bad schemers. Died.

Gloria Viscountess Dahldolf: Was attempting to supplant her husband's heir apparent with her own son. Failed conspirator against Rozemyne.

Immanual: tries to get Rozemyne to supplant his boss, the High Bishop of Yurgenschmidt. Offends everyone.

I'm sure that there will be some that other people think should be on this list which I've missed, and some on the list which it could be argued shouldn't be. (I've listed a few commoners here, which isn't really relevant to scheming as a feature of noble culture.)

For your consideration: Brigitte's ex, who tried to usurp Illgner. All we know is that he overplayed his hand, but without Rozemyne, he may have succeeded.

wanderer_1204

@Almond-Magnum said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

I'd say the chief reason Aub Drewanchel should get a dishonorable mention is how badly he bungled Ortwin's prospects. He was too hasty, and opened his mouth before gathering all the intelligence he needed.

I think the details of this incident are yet to be officially translated. I am looking forward to it in SSC3.
We do get hints in Ortwin POV in H5Yv2.

kuali

@Libri-Liberorum said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

The former First Prince: Succeeded in a double regicide, but lost the subsequent war.
The former Fourth Prince: Succeeded in assassinating the Third Prince and almost all his family, but lost in the war.

It was the First Prince who assassinated the Third (or arranged it, at least), ultimately claiming the lives of three of his relatives. I don't think the Third Prince deserves that spot on the list.

The first prince had ultimately lost the war, but the third prince was killed by an assassin the first prince had sent out before his death, resulting in them both dying.

@Libri-Liberorum said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

Former Aub Klassenberg: successfully gets the bloody purge he wanted.

I don't think you can really credit him with that one; The purge only happened because of the abduction and murder of Trauerqual's daughter (which I'm pretty sure Klassenberg wasn't behind). Until that point, Trauerqual had Klassenberg stalemated.

@Almond-Magnum said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

Magdalena: Marries who she wants and thereby ends a war.

Not sure I'd count her as scheming, either; She wasn't trying to end the war, after all, she was a teenager with a crush on her teacher whose family ultimately chose to humour her when she attempted Dunkelfelger's equivalent of eloping.

@Valanduin said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

Marrying his daughter to a royal wasn't a bad idea in the first place, but Sigiswald is so obviously terrible that everyone who knew him should have been trying to keep him from the throne and Aub Drewanchel should have investigated that before arranging a marriage to him

Here's the thing: Sigiswald wasn't an obviously terrible heir to the throne or marriage prospect. Don't get me wrong, he was terrible, but not in ways that would have been easy to spot ahead of time. Sigiswald is good - really, really good - at acting royal. And his treatment of his (chronologically first, legally second) wife Nahelache seems to have been exemplary. That he was All Style, No Substance wouldn't be obvious until something tested that substance... which doesn't seem to have happened until after the wedding.

Almond Magnum

@kuali said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

Here's the thing: Sigiswald wasn't an obviously terrible heir to the throne or marriage prospect. Don't get me wrong, he was terrible, but not in ways that would have been easy to spot ahead of time. Sigiswald is good - really, really good - at acting royal. And his treatment of his (chronologically first, legally second) wife Nahelache seems to have been exemplary. That he was All Style, No Substance wouldn't be obvious until something tested that substance... which doesn't seem to have happened until after the wedding.

Yet Adolphine had him, to a great extent, pegged even before they were engaged.

kuali

@Almond-Magnum The earliest I can spot mention of Adolphine having doubts about Sigiswald was after Eglantine's choice:

“If only things were so simple...” Adolphine said, her usual triumphant self now completely replaced with a dark and clouded expression. “Prince Sigiswald cares deeply for Lady Nahelache. He was bound to treat Lady Eglantine well no matter how little she meant to him, since she was absolutely necessary for his becoming king... but what about me?”

“Well, this is a political marriage. I cannot imagine royalty mistreating Drewanchel the Third,” I said. Lady Eglantine was on another level, but it was unthinkable that my older sister would be neglected. I told her that she was overthinking things.

“Yes, you are surely right. He will treat me as a normal fiancée from this point onward,” she said with a weak smile, and it was only then that I realized something—not once had my sister received any special treatment from her potential suitors. Both princes had sent Lady Eglantine gifts and honeyed proposals in the hope of winning her heart or the throne, but neither had done anything for Adolphine. She was being treated as though she were just any other noble.

As my sister was not yet officially engaged to either prince, it was not an absolute requirement that they greet her or send her gifts... but surely they could have shown her some consideration while she was stuck waiting for Lady Eglantine to make her decision.

“Everything will change for the better once you are formally engaged,” I said, putting aside the anger that was boiling up inside of me and instead attempting to cheer up my sister. She gave a half-hearted giggle and another weak smile, then let out a heavy sigh.

“I will surely be compared to Lady Eglantine from now on, no matter what I do. And not only that, but I will also have to stand above a former princess-turned-archduke candidate from Klassenberg the First—a girl who regularly came first-in-class. I never expected to become the next king’s first wife; this surprise is most unpleasant. I cannot help but feel that my future is bleak.”

But at that point, he wasn't coming across any worse than Anastasius (who also ignored Adolphine while Eglantine was in play), and she seemed more concerned about a lifetime of comparison to Eglantine than about Sigiswald himself.

It was the following years of low-effort engagement on his part that really soured her to him, with her opinion a couple of years later ending up as:

“My treatment as his fiancée has been far from ideal,” I said. “I doubt that will change when I become his wife. Do you really expect me to squeal with joy simply because I am marrying a prince? Just how witless do you think I am? From the bottom of my heart, I would welcome anyone to take my place.”

And naturally he would go on to live down to her expectations.

Arcene

@Almond-Magnum said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

You say that because you're looking at the end result, but she didn't start as a tyrant. She started as an underdog in enemy territory. Her mother was dead, her older brother was dead, her father, at best, resented her, her stepfamily hated her, her little brother was nothing but dead weight. And from there, she climbed to a position where she could be a tyrant. She must have been quite the schemer before she got old and complacent.

I was mostly playing devils advocate, we've only seen her abuse and tyranny, fterall. I agree that she was probably quite the schemer, but it could just be everyone in Ehrenfest being meatheaded knights.