Why do you think that Amazon is removing titles from their platform?
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Since people want to discuss this issue in depth I decided to open up this topic. HOWEVER! PLEASE KEEP IT CLEAN AND CIVIL! ALSO, PLEASE LEAVE POLITICAL SIDES OUT OF THIS DICUSSION.
Many people want to discuss this and we will be allowed to do so so long as everyone keeps cool and gives logical suggestions as to why this may be happening. If anything is deemed inappropriate or inflamitory it can be deleted by JNC staff and I encourage them to do so. If it gets too out of hand they WILL SHUT THIS TOPIC DOWN!
So please, let us have a calm and rational discussion on this topic. We don't know the real reason behind this as it has not been divulged to JNC or anyone else out there so please, let's keep it clean so that we can all express our thoughts on the matter and this topic doesn't get locked and or deleted entirety.
I now open the discussion to you all. Thank you for your understanding of my forwardness. I felt it imperative to let everthing be known before this discussion started.😊
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@lighthawk96 I think the civil part will be the hardest.
And after my transgression in the aforementioned thread here my 2 cents.
I assume it is a mix of people reporting those books and them having certain pictures in the front (Kobo did write as much as this). Some scenarious. Parents noticing their children looking at those books and simply opening the preview just to find this. Or some covers are also questionable (anyone up for the Milim cover in That time I reincarnated as a slime?). What makes one wonder is that the majority of them seem to be LN and particular from JNC. So to open possibilities again:
- Feminists that are against objectiving females
- parents who fear for their childs
- other publishers who are jealous of the success of JNC
- Some misguided soul who simply hates everything
- the grey overlords who fear we learn magic trough isekai books (and yes this is the only one I mean as a joke)
The problems is we can assume much but as Amazon only states it goes against their guidelines we will simply speculate and never knew exactly what happened. The only think we know some of the volumes had pictures of Onsen scenes or something similar (let's one recall the case with Overlord Volume 7 or 8 where they removed the Onsen pic of Albedo, Shalltear and Aura). Others had slaves as theme (someone mentioned that maybe blacklivematters movements makes a company like Amazon wary).
My best bet is that someone found those LN offensive (either someone of the Board of chairmans) or someone influential. Along the lines of "Those books are for kids, they are not allowed such themes".
Don't forget a catholic school in Tennesse banned Harry Potter books in their library as they contained actual spells and curses.
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Frankly, I think it comes down to how the LNs are being posted on Amazon, Kindle Direct Publishing, and efforts to police it "better". It has been pointed out that KDP doesn't have the broader variety of classifications that "normal" channels do, meaning JNC has to upload them as "manga", when they're not.
Where I have the JNC epubs to check against the list of banned Kindle titles, they do have images that would show up in the "Look inside!" preview, and would violate one or more "standards". And it is pretty easy to find such images in manga and LNs targeting the "older teen" market.
Too many volumes in a series like that, and the whole series is likely to be blocked.
It will be most interesting to see if this is "fixed" by moving the color images to the back.
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Well, the most popular belief is that Amazon depends too much on their machine learning algorithms, and they don't have enough personnel (or neglect) to manually check everything properly (or at least respond to all the complaints). The current situation of covid may also contribute to that.
And I think it's impossible to keep all political discussions out of this, as many suspect that, with all the social problems recently, many big tech companies may feel it's better to err on the safe side to not offend anyone.
I can only say that, it's pointless to argue with someone who wants to play it safe, as our voice (and market size) does not hold enough weight to make a dent in their revenue. We can only wait for everything to pass. -
@tgquan67 said in Why do you think that Amazon is removing digital titles from their platform?:
Well, the most popular belief is that Amazon depends too much on their machine learning algorithms, and they don't have enough personnel (or neglect) to manually check everything properly (or at least respond to all the complaints).
I believe this is part of it
I believe that complaints were lodged however many times with whatever keywords in the complaint that caused a "flag" in the AI to trip the lever that temporarily de-lists a title (pending a human to look at address)
-this is essentially the same system YouTube uses when a video receives a complaint that it's copy-written.
It would not surprise me of an individual or group is exploiting this process (intentionally suppressing content)
it also wouldn't surprise me if a single influential individual (a high profile politician, celebrity etc.) raised concerns via a back channel and amazon is reacting to this.
Based on the targeting, pattern of titles and what has NOT been de-listed- I don't think it's on behalf well organized/high profile political movement (a feminist group/ SJW/ etc) - there would be chatter about some campaign or whatnot.I think (not based on evidence, admittedly just my intuition):
- this is a small group of puritanical minded influencer-wannabe's that are targeting titles based on image search or keywords (and haven't actually read/purchased the ebooks)
- amazon doesn't care enough about the lost revenue/bad press, yet to fix the reporting system
I fear that:
- this is a 'trial run' of a system exploit that some group of a-holes who has a larger objective of censorship via social engineering
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@saskir said in Why do you think that Amazon is removing digital titles from their platform?:
(let's one recall the case with Overlord Volume 7 or 8 where they removed the Onsen pic of Albedo, Shalltear and Aura).
Wasn't that a separate bonus illustration for volume 8? (like something you'd find in a JNC premium ebook)
If it wasn't part of the book to begin with, Yen couldn't have removed it. -
I’d put money on the whole thing being started because of semi-nude and sexualised representations of children. I think there’s a real chance of that becoming illegal and Amazon doesn’t want to get the reputation (and corresponding lawsuits that go along with being known as) as purveyors of what could legally become considered CP.
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Some busybodies complained and it was removed. Asked amazon just said it was some ai or something.
There are plenty of different groups with plenty of (mostly overlapping) motives. Unless amazon finally tells us who they all are, we will only know if we find whatever corner of the internet they are hiding in and gloating about it.
The money lost for amazon amounts to rounding errors for them, so, here we are.Since I want the world to move away from amazon, I welcome them fucking themselves over and giving customers a reason to check out (and potentially leave for) other options. My big problem right now is that other options are now also starting to kick LNs. I guess mostly because they got the same complaints amazon did.
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@nichtmalda which platform is doing the same? Hopefully not bookwalker or kobo, because they are platforms by japanese companies, it will be weird if they start doing so.
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@saskir said in Why do you think that Amazon is removing digital titles from their platform?:
the grey overlords who fear we learn magic trough isekai books (and yes this is the only one I mean as a joke)
You mean it as a joke, but there are some religious folk who sincerely believe that.
Harry Potter and before that Dungeons and Dragons triggered protests from them trying to protect The Children from witchcraft and devil worship.
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@tgquan67
Kobo kicked a bunch of stuff by Seven Seas some time ago and now some novels by jnc a few days ago. -
@nichtmalda said in Why do you think that Amazon is removing digital titles from their platform?:
@tgquan67
Kobo kicked a bunch of stuff by Seven Seas some time ago and now some novels by jnc a few days ago.That was already explained as a breach of Kobo policy, which we've already resolved and the books are back up for sale.
Whoever said nothing's impossible never tried slamming a revolving door.
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@myskaros if you are at liberty to discuss this, can you explain what policy was violated, and did you have to make any modification to the books before reuploading them?
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From the opening post of the news topic:
Kobo Takedowns
All volumes of How NOT to Summon a Demon Lord were flagged on Kobo due to customer complaints. We have changed the EPUB layout (the color images are now in the back instead of the front) and added the "Erotica" category to them, and they are now back up for sale.Sorry but J-Novel Club does not publicly comment on any potential licensing decision or acquisitions.
J-Novel Club, Future Volume Release Schedule
Manga FAQ
Premium Content List -
@Rahul-Balaggan I do agree with the changes, even if not faithful to the original no content was really lost. The tagging you mentioned is also important good work hopefully they can be back on amazon as well.
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@Rahul-Balaggan as long as no content is lost or cut out then I'm good with it.
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Nice thing about only needing to change the illustrations to the back: Many skip them till they read the whole volume so as not to be spoiled.
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@saskir said in Why do you think that Amazon is removing digital titles from their platform?:
Nice thing about only needing to change the illustrations to the back: Many skip them till they read the whole volume so as not to be spoiled.
:raises hand: that's me! I also often avoid the cover since many are spoiler-filled.
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This short clip summarizes nicely why ppl want to "cancel" things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTk-69f64KU&t=43s
If you followd Jordan Peterson then you have most likely already seen this :)
Problem was arrisen when lazy Amazon management just took down things without researching first. Basically if you kick a bit of fuss and send few "strong" letters to Amazon they will ban things since it is easier than to check things first.
I imagine if we would organize ourselfs and send few letters in which all demand to ban something for some made up reason, which alligns with current Amazon political orientation, we would easily be abe to ban almoust any smaller thing.
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Not a theory, I just find it so ironic how, just bellows the vol of grimar they banned for a slightly lewd image, Amazon is trying to sell me straight up porn ("Entre deux"), and hard ecchi like "World end harem" or "Infection".
Just in case any of you has a "friend" who's looking for it: 40223, you're welcome.
