Over-localization
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@mlindner said in Over-localization:
I'm don't want to read a book that's been re-interpreted by the translator to convey a different meaning than the author was originally trying to convey. The message to the Anglo audience should be identical (as close as reasonably possible) to the message being conveyed to the Japanese audience.
What would you rather a translator do when they can accurately convey either the message (what is literally being said) or the meaning (how it is intended to be interpreted) but not both?
Stay shiny, y'all.
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@Shiny said in Over-localization:
@mlindner said in Over-localization:
I'm don't want to read a book that's been re-interpreted by the translator to convey a different meaning than the author was originally trying to convey. The message to the Anglo audience should be identical (as close as reasonably possible) to the message being conveyed to the Japanese audience.
What would you rather a translator do when they can accurately convey either the message (what is literally being said) or the meaning (how it is intended to be interpreted) but not both?
Which is probably most of the time...
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@Shiny - I think advocates of more raw translations would say that this is a false dichotomy. The "both" option is available with "TL notes," where the literal message is translated and the meaning is explained.
I'm not a fan of TL notes in light reading, personally, but I do acknowledge their value for people trying to learn Japanese or learn about Japanese culture. If that desire for learning is why someone picks up translated light novels in the first place, then I think TL notes would be their preferred world.
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@Shiny I personally think the meaning should be the most important thing pursued in translating a work to an intended audience, now if there is multiple probable meanings and the original author (or team) is not available to express the intent than falling back on what is verbatim seems fine. Now I might be in the minority but I started reading here not because of any disire to immerse myself in Japanese culture but for my love of books, story’s and to read something a bit different.
Now with that last statement you might say than why change the word why not translate it verbatim if you are looking for something different then western novels.
Well I can say that by keeping it verbatim in English it has corrupted the work itself and lost its intent, if the story translated verbatim when read in English changes the very meaning or intent behind them without the translation siting the reader down to explain why, than I believe that is a failure of the translation. If the verbatim text changes meaning between languages than that something different from a different culture has already in my belief been lost and is a failure on the translators part to both the story and the foreign audience.
Now of course this can be all very relative and a tightrope to walk, but that’s just my Toonie of an opinion.
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One thing to make clear is I'm fine and even happy when the isekai'd Japanese character's own POV is translated more literally. A Japanese MC will think in yen, love sushi, rice, miso, etc.
It's the other world culture and native POVs where that makes less sense to me. A Western medieval-ish country is not going to be drinking sake out of wine bowls, they're more likely to drink wine from a wine glass. The natives will think in gold pieces not yen. They're also less likely to include cultural traditions like kneeling to be corrected, writing 30 reports as punishment, or calling upperclassmen sempai.
When an author includes those in a LN and they are translated literally I have to remind myself that the author is Japanese and is perhaps unwittingly making the other world more Japanese out of ignorance or intentionally to make it easier for their audience to understand.
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I see my post got moved to this moderator's "dustbin collection" point. Unfortunate.
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I'm not trying to stir up a hornets' nest but:
There is no such thing as "direct translation" or "literal translation" from Japanese to English. The structure of the language is different. (and this is why machine translations are, more often than not, terrible to the point of being unreadable). Just as one cannot translate from apple to orange.Translators and editors are forced to Interpret works. Cultural items that may be left unsaid but are important for understanding the intent of the author need to be inserted, Cultural references that are casual mentions (to the original Japanese audience) maybe need contextual explanations/expansion so that readers 'get it'. Also, even in works that don't have a setting in Japan, linguistic cues exist that are shortcuts to comprehension (like honorifics) that either must be carried over, or ignored, or substituted with something else that conveys the authors intent- which is a judgement call. there isn't a 'one size fits all' solution
I read banned books
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@Sam-Pinansky As long as there is a foot note explaining what it means culturally.
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@Jon-Mitchell I got that when I tried to read a machine translated version of Sorcerer King of Destruction. It made no sense!
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@Folker46 said in Over-localization:
@Sam-Pinansky As long as there is a foot note explaining what it means culturally.
I'm all for footnotes or annotations, but I also realize that this is extra work. If the API allows it; I'd pay more coins (say 799 vs 699) for some works if they had annotations/footnotes (as long as they can be turned off) or a glossary
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@Jon-Mitchell Some manga's do that, the translator will leave a note in the spaces between panels, I learned a lot from those.
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Isn't there at least one JNC title with TL notes at the end of the parts, or am I thinking of other publishers?
I'm against having the notes interrupt the main text unless that can be turned off. It throws me out of the story.
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@HarmlessDave Some series have translation notes, but that's premium content.
Or maybe you're thinking of D-Genesis that explains some citations/annotations at the end of some chapters/sections? But I believe those are included in the LN itself rather than being additions by the translator.
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When I read "Saga of Tanya the Evil" on Kindle, it has footnotes that open a pop-up window when I tap the link in the text, and then I can just close the window when I'm done.
I haven't seen any other LNs with this feature though, I think it might be nice if JNC could do that with their e-books.
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@Terabyte said in Over-localization:
@HarmlessDave Some series have translation notes, but that's premium content.
Or maybe you're thinking of D-Genesis that explains some citations/annotations at the end of some chapters/sections? But I believe those are included in the LN itself rather than being additions by the translator.
Yep, D-Genesis. I hadn't realized those annotations were coming from the original version.
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@BlueDragoon said in Over-localization:
I haven't seen any other LNs with this feature though, I think it might be nice if JNC could do that with their e-books.
D-Genesis also does this with its footnotes. JNC just typically don't make footnotes
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@BlueDragoon said in Over-localization:
When I read "Saga of Tanya the Evil" on Kindle, it has footnotes
Purely off the top of my head, I seem to recall that the footnotes in Tanya are from the original text, not added by the localization team.
