Over-localization
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I’m American and I’ve even lived in countries with the metric system and km make sense but it still takes me time to figure out meters.
I don’t ask translations to translate to feet and understand why some might not but personally I prefer it for ease of my reading experience.
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@dtta As an American studying science in college, I can understand both imperial or metric and I don't really care which is used (though I would totally be fine with the metric system overtaking imperial. Metric is just so much simpler and more scientific). The only measurement I have no idea how to size up in my head is tatami mats lol.
I do remember watching NGNL, and Shiro always saying "Nii," so it was really weird going to Yen's translation of "Bro," but other than say changing food to something more American (totally not acceptable), I don't mind how localized the novel gets. Though I hate it when fan translations have "Hai" or "goshujin" etc. romanized instead of just translating smh.
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I typed up a few responses to this topic only to delete them. This is a terribly subjective topic, as each of us has our own level of familiarity with the content. I don't think it's fair to assign any hard and fast rules, it's all going to be a case by case basis. There's always some interesting discussions on specific choices.
Ultimately, I figure if I really cared that much about faithfulness to the original, I'd get off my lazy butt and learn and experience Japanese directly. Otherwise, I have to accept that everything if going to be colored to some degree by the localizer. The best I can do there is get to know the choices they made and the reasons for their decisions, so I slowly learn more about the underlying original material.
On the whole metric/imperial thing, the main issue I have is with km to miles, and kg to pounds. Meter to foot, I just use 1 yard = 1 meter, it's close enough. But just to point out how dumb imperial is, I can never remember how many feet are in a mile.
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@legitpancake said in Over-localization:
I do remember watching NGNL, and Shiro always saying "Nii," so it was really weird going to Yen's translation of "Bro," but other than say changing food to something more American (totally not acceptable), I don't mind how localized the novel gets.
I don't really see what's so weird there. I can't think of any better translation for how she refers to him. Both are shortened from an obvious source word (Oniisan -> Brother).
Also, I personally can't stand the imperial system. Since my country uses the metric one I constantly have to look up how long something is in cm/m/km/etc. (Thanks, Yen!) Sometimes I don't even bother and just go "So, basically, it's long?". I get the logic for converting metric to imperial for an American audience, but I still don't like it.
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@doublemangekyo said in Over-localization:
I don't really see what's so weird there.
I think he was just expressing that he was caught off-guard since he was so used to one thing and now it was another.
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@flarecde @doublemangekyo I totally agree, the imperial system should just die ;-P
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@ghdpro said in Over-localization:
While it is true the English translations of LN by US companies are most likely mainly going to be read by people in the USA, I don't think the amount of non-USA readers is so insignificant to ignore them completely.
And I'm hardly suggesting it is, or even necessarily defending the choice to convert units. My remark about a possible rationale for such conversion was a passing comment; my point was that it's hard to establish any categorical imperatives as regards translation, and that most "translations MUST do X/MUST NOT do y" comments are at least somewhat subjective, if not arbitrary.
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@terabyte I second this, dammit YP. I can at best convert inches mentally, but when it comes to feet I have to get my fucking calc. It's not enjoyable at all.
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@paulnamida Come on, it's easy.
12 inches to a foot, 3 feet to a yard and wtf would anyone use this POS system over a base 10 system yards to a mile.
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@sniper_samurai said in Over-localization:
@paulnamida Come on, it's easy.
12 inches to a foot, 3 feet to a yard and wtf would anyone use this POS system over a base 10 system yards to a mile.
There is actually a reason it's 12 inches to a foot. 12 results in whole numbers when divided by 2, 3 and 4, and dividing parts in halves, thirds or quarters is very common. 10 gives you fun things like 3.3333...
Of course, it sucks when we use a base 10 numerical system, which is why metric is designed the way it is. Maybe we should switch to base 12!
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@flarecde I understand that. Imperial measurements are fine for small amounts like feet, pounds and pints which are still used here for height, food and alcoholic drink measurements. The problems start occurring when the numbers get big enough that they need to be converted to a larger unit of measurement.
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Reading imperial measurements and Kelvin in novels always give me a headache. Besides the headache of converting everything to something logical it always leaves me wondering if it was converted accurately or not. Having said that I am not American nor living in America.
It would be nice if translators kept to the original measurement system but yeah a non American is saying that ;).
It's also annoying to read San, Sama, Sensei and then the use of Mr... across different novels.
It's understandable that it changes from translator to translator but still it would be nice if they all used the same titles.
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@fated what novels are you reading to see temperatures in Kelvin?
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I read between 1 to 3 books a week. From trashy to high fantasy/ science books.
Who knows where i read it. I don't know if it was a novel from JNC or another publisher. -
@dtta
Still doesn’t feel right to me... but meh, everyone has their own preferences. -
@guspaz IS has a definite case where over localisation has taken away at least one point where in the original Ichika sees his sister come in and says Chifuyu-nee instantly giving away their relationship, the translated version misses that but still says the class now knows their relationship.
Also taking away the japanese honorifics often takes away many subtle changes going on in the story not just little jokes.
For me part of appreciating another cultures art is having access to translations that don't diminish the differences. -
And some think the localisation is bad in LN.
You never saw the german Game of Thrones.
Jon Snow is here Jon Schnee (yep a literal translation). And this happens with every Person, Place, etc.
This would not be so bad if the books would not be translated without this. Yeah there it is still Jon Snow. But as far as I recall this was also in Sweden the case.
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@saskir it's the same in Spanish, all the bastards have their last names translated.
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Like and unlike many others I prefer under localization. Well not in the sense that, if it's easily translated and doesn't sound off I don't want it translated, as someone already mentioned, but that I consider the following over localization.
When it comes to honorifics. I highly doubt people interested in and that are reading LNs don't at least know about Japanese using honorific whether or not they know all the meanings. Since typically there is no good way to translate them it just sounds off, they should just be left as is and if the reader needs more, they can look it up.
I have actually found myself reverse translating Shield Hero 'Mr. Naofumi' and 'little Naofumi' as I'm reading.As for titles like Sensei while there may be something considered as a direct translation, typically people don't just call their teacher 'Teacher' in English speaking countries. It just sounds bad. Can probably get away with it if referring to a doctor I suppose.
This always made me cringe when watching Dubs, GTO really comes to mind.For things like siblings calling to each other I think they shouldn't be attempted to be translated, as they usually also include some kind of honorific. If they are some sort of nick name like mentioned earlier 'Nii' - > 'Bro' while it may get the point across that they aren't specifically saying 'brother' it doesn't necessarily carry the same connotation.
Not to mention most don't call their older siblings 'big brother/sister' in English speaking countries except maybe when really young.On a side note:
I remember the first time I watched an anime that had the "girl call me 'Oni-chan' fetish" and was just translated literally to him wanting her to call him 'big brother'. Of course I didn't know of this fetish at the time and completely confused the hell out of me as to why he'd want some girl to refer to him as just 'big brother' and to top it off not even being siblings. (Green Green - don't remember which fansub group).For the imperial/metric debate it really doesn't matter to me all that much, as there is a true direct conversion with no ambiguous meanings or for it to sound weird. While I am more accustomed to imperial I don't expect the translation company to go that far in to converting units and can do a rough estimate in my head anyways. If I want a precise measurement I just look it up. While I know metric is the standard in Japan, if it is converted I don't really think about it and it doesn't bother me.
If they do put both though( 'It's 1 meter or about 3 feet') I usually ending up pausing slightly and wonder. But that's it. -
I prefer my steak slightly under-localized, but for god's sake, at least translate sentence structure to something that makes sense in English. I will just straight up not buy a novel if it keeps Japanese sentence structure to the detriment of the reading experience. For example, there's no need to translate 「A子ならもう学校に行ったよ」 as ”If it's A, she's left for school already” or ”As for A, she's left for school already” every time. Argh. I just skipped Archdemon's Dilemma because of this.
Also, I prefer metric because I'm not from the US.
