Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion

marcus_atticus

As a fan of the series, I'm quite pleased that it is doing well. If we're going to use the amount of posts in the forum as a metric, then the series is doing outstanding in that the next highest post after Bookworm is an order of magnitude lower. Why is that the case? I'd like the insights from anyone willing to impart their wisdom on the prompt 'What makes Ascendance of a Bookworm a successful series?'

Gamen

@marcus_atticus I seem to recall that it's not; or at least it wasn't a few years ago. As it is, discussion is not a proxy for sales; romance is the highest selling genre of fiction, but does it generate a lot of discussion compared to sci-fi and fantasy?

Lily Garden

@marcus_atticus to add on to what @Gamen said, the author of Bookworm, Kazuki-sensei, is a master of foreshadowing. This induces a lot of speculation and attracts a certain kind of reader, the kind that engage in speculating and predicting, to the forum.

Something I have noticed is that light novel authors as a whole tend not to excel at foreshadowing and frankly tend be a a little slipshod when it comes to world building. As a rare exception to this trend, Kazuki-sensei encourages deeper engagement with the text. This causes the number of forums posts to skyrocket.

kuali

Wikipedia has a list of best-selling Light Novels - standard caveats apply about the reliability of that data, naturally. All figures include spinoffs like manga adaptations, and are, I think, full-world figures.

The JNC series that appear on that list (it cuts off at 5 million lifetime sales) are:

#5 The Apothecary Diaries (21 million)
#7 Slayers (20 million)
#9 Sorcerous Stabber Orphen (14 million)
#15 Full Metal Panic! (11 million)
#39 My Next Life as a Villainess: All Routes Lead to Doom! (5 million)
#40 Arifureta (5 million)

The last figure google gave me for AOAB's sales was from last november, having hit a total of 8 million across all versions. This would be good for #23 on the wikipedia list (I'm not entirely sure why its not on there already and value my sanity too much to investigate further), or #5 on the JNC only list. I assume it would be a few places higher if we had a figure from this year.

So, its definitely not a bad seller (at least not worldwide, admin only knows how many of those sales are in english). But by audience alone it shouldn't be beating the rest of the forums as much as it does.

The biggest of the Apothecary Diaries threads was for Volume 5, with 368 messages from 59 posters. There are currently 9 volumes, so somewhere in the rough region of 2000 posts between them.

By comparison, Bookworm's most popular thread was P5V2's discussion thread. 5.1k posts - easily twice Apothecary's entire series - from 216 posters.

Anyway, number trawling aside, I'll add two more factors on to Lily and Gamen's points:

Bookworm is likely to appeal disproportionately to people who are, themselves, really into books. The sorts of people who'd hang around a forum about books to talk about books, for instance.
Bookworm has a frighteningly consistent release schedule. We're not caught up and waiting for new volumes to be posted; we also don't have the schedule slips that occasionally hit other series (Apothecary has had a couple in the time I've been following it, for instance.)

So, popular enough to draw an audience that's disproportionately heavy on bookworms, full of content that stimulates discussion, and without any gaps large enough to let the discussion die down again.

Gamen

@kuali said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

I'm not entirely sure why its not on there already and value my sanity too much to investigate further

I have a vague recollection that I do think was specific to Bookworm that it's because it's categorized differently. Checking Oricon does seem to bear this out; Bookworm is categorized as a 書籍, while Arifureta, the Apothecary Diaries, and Knight's & Magic are all 文庫, as is Index.

sgill2002

Been a lurker on these forums for a while, but never posted. Starting reading the novels and following them, after the first anime series. When I found The Jnovel club and reading weekly, rather that watching the calendar for the next volume to publish on amazon ended the multiple month cycle of feast
and famine. Recently I don't know, even though I continued to read Bookworm, it was no longer my top follow. This last volume though, just Wow, really wow. I'd held off reading till episode 8 came out and read it in a night finishing past 4 am. I feel re-energised and can't wait to read more!! To take lines from another author, "the board is set and the pieces are in motion". I can't wait for the next volume and the one after, Hopefully there will be a payoff for the multiple fore shadowing / breadcrumbs in previous volumes. The only sad thing is well, we draw closer to the last volume :(

jcochran

@sgill2002 said in Bookworm Part 5 Vol. 7 Discussion!:

The only sad thing is well, we draw closer to the last volume :(

And as one door closes, another opens. Don't think of it as ending. Think of it as allowing the sequel to be published. And in any case, there ought to be 40 more weeks or so 'til this part of the story ends and another begins.

Libri Liberorum

@jcochran said in Bookworm Part 5 Vol. 7 Discussion!:

@sgill2002 said in Bookworm Part 5 Vol. 7 Discussion!:

The only sad thing is well, we draw closer to the last volume :(

And as one door closes, another opens. Don't think of it as ending. Think of it as allowing the sequel to be published. And in any case, there ought to be 40 more weeks or so 'til this part of the story ends and another begins.

The story is good because it is going somewhere. Because it is going somewhere, it must end. There are stories with 100 LN volumes or 200 manga volumes or 500 anime episodes, but to me they feel like being on a treadmill instead of being on a journey. (Not that I've ever stuck around on such a treadmill for very long.)

rsog412

@Libri-Liberorum said in Bookworm Part 5 Vol. 7 Discussion!:

The story is good because it is going somewhere. Because it is going somewhere, it must end. There are stories with 100 LN volumes or 200 manga volumes or 500 anime episodes, but to me they feel like being on a treadmill instead of being on a journey. (Not that I've ever stuck around on such a treadmill for very long.)

I think this is only part of the reason.

This is a story that changes. The setting and supporting cast shifts in and out of focus. Wilfried feels like he's been around for a long time, but he wasn't in the first seven books. Even Ferdinand wasn't in the first three. Meanwhile, other characters that we knew well (Frieda, Lutz, Brigitte) have shifted to the background and now only make occasional appearances.

In other stories, when supporting characters get backgrounded, it can feel like the author simply got bored of writing them. Here, we can tell that Kazuki-sensei loves all of her characters - but they have their own stories and those stories diverged from Rozemyne's. We're never in the dark about what they're doing, and never left asking, "Hey, wouldn't <character> be relevant here? Why don't they have anything to say?" It helps that (almost) all of the cast are actual characters instead of just tropey cutouts, too.

I see the change, respect for its supporting cast (and worldbuilding), and long coherent plot as the three legs that support Bookworm.

I think it would be possible for a story to feel like a journey even if it doesn't have a destination, as long as the space it travels through is varied and interesting. On the other hand, there's a couple series on this site that have tried that and I haven't seen one pull it off yet.

Sekki

Lots of LN stories can be described as "stuff happens". Good example is Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear. AoB has clear idea where it is going an we discover world together mith MC. We started with simple room and now we know about lands beyond YS. As you mentioned background characters keep on living. They are not simply forgotten which adds to the story and keeps world alive.

Good example of Western writting is Galactica remake. Before they started filmning they figured out start, middle and ending of story first (I think I read in fanbook that Kazuki did the same). When you have solid foundation then story gets much better. Lots fo series have good pitch but has no idea where it should go.

Gamen

@Sekki said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

Good example of Western writting is Galactica remake. Before they started filmning they figured out start, middle and ending of story first (I think I read in fanbook that Kazuki did the same). When you have solid foundation then story gets much better. Lots fo series have good pitch but has no idea where it should go.

It's from the first fanbook; it's the second answer under the "About the Writing Process" section.

...Though seeing BSG referenced as an example feels weird, since it famously said "They have a plan" in the opening credits when the writers had none for more than a season at a time.

I would've used B5, which was pitched to the networks with a full five-season story arc planned out roughly from beginning to end. Of course, the details didn't survive the reality of producing TV, like cast members leaving for other opportunities or for health reasons, something novelists never have to worry about, and even animation and video games readily replace voice actors. Of course, the threat of being cancelled also discourages more than season-at-a-time planning.

While I like stories with conclusive destinations they're heading towards, like B5 or the Wheel of Time, I don't think it's necessary. Something like Stargate is good as well - set up concrete goals to work towards, and work on them incrementally without stagnating, while scattering the seeds of future stories so you always have something new to move to when the current goal is completed.

Funny thing to me is that while Bookworm was planned in advance, it looks like it was also planned so it could be ended at various times without leaving major plots hanging. Since we only learn about larger issues facing Ehrenfest or the world as Myne does, and she only learns about them incrementally over the course of the story, it's as if those problems don't exist except for their foreshadowing.

Alejoaranguren

This post is deleted!

geetop

I watched the first season of the anime and was thinking of starting the series. Which Volume should I start with? I am not certain that I want to read the first Volume if the anime is fairly close to the book. Any thoughts?

kuali

@geetop Season 1 of the anime adapts all of Part 1, so if you just want to pick up where you left off, start with Part 2 Volume 1.

If you want to read some of the stuff the anime covered, but skip the very beginning, I'd recommend Part 1 Volume 2. For reference, the first meeting with Benno is at the end of volume 1, and volume 2 covers from the start of Myne and Lutz's attempts to make proper paper up to Myne's big collapse. (Using Freida's old magic tool to cure it is the start of Volume 3.)

Libri Liberorum

Season 1 of the anime is Part 1 (3 volumes). Season 2 of the anime is Part 2 volumes 1-2. Season 3 of the anime is Part 2 volumes 3-4 (which finishes Part 2.) So if you've watched all that and just want to pick up from there onwards, start with Part 3 volume 1.

However, I recommend starting at the beginning, as the LN has much more depth and detail than the anime, so is well worth reading even though you know the plot.

Or start at part 3, but come back to read parts 1 and 2 later.

kuali

@Libri-Liberorum While that would be sound advice for someone who'd watched all three seasons, geetop said they'd only watched the first...

geetop

I think I may have been mistaken. I watched up until she left home to work at the temple and some of the things that happened. I know I never watched season 3 (maybe I saw a bit of season 2).

In any case, I appreciate all the input it was very helpful!

kuali

In that case, lets do the full list:

Light Novel	Anime Episode	Events
Part 1 Volume 1	Season 1 Episode 1 A World Without Books	Urano reincarnates as Myne
	Season 1 Episode 6 Meeting	Otto introduces Myne and Lutz to Benno

Part 1 Volume 2	Season 1 Episode 6 Meeting	Myne and Lutz begin putting together the tools needed for papermaking
	Season 1 Episode 10 To the Second Winter	Myne collapses from the Devouring in Benno's office.

Part 1 Volume 3	Season 1 Episode 11 Life-or-Death Choices and Family Meetings	Myne awakens in Freida's house, having been saved by a magic tool
	Season 2 Episode 15 Apprentice Priestess	The meeting where Benno warns Myne about people gathering information on her and finds out she made a deal with Freida for the Pound Cake recipe.

Part 2 Volume 1	Season 2 Episode 15 Apprentice Priestess	The meeting between the High Priest and High Bishop to discuss Myne's treatment in the temple
	Season 2 Episode 20 The Path Ahead of Lutz	High Priest Ferdinand mediates between Lutz and his parents

Part 2 Volume 2	Season 2 Episode 21 New Retainers	Myne is informed of Effa's pregnancy
	Season 2 Episode 26 Dreamlike World	Ferdinand reads Myne's memories

Part 2 Volume 3	Season 2 Episode 26 Dreamlike World	Ferdinand's private meeting with Karstedt to discuss what he found in Myne's mind
	Season 3 Episode 31 The Gift from the Blue-Robed Priest and Going Home	Delia's report to the High Bishop's retainer

Part 2 Volume 4	Season 3 Episode 32 The Abandoned Child of the Cathedral and Making Colors	The private meeting that includes Bezewanst, Viscount Gerlach, Viscountess Dahldolf, and Count Bindewald
	Season 3 Episode 36 Blessing	The shorts of Myne's lower city associates reacting to her absence

You should be able to work out which novel you reached from that :)

Also, a quick note on the different name translations:

Name in LN/Manga	Name in Anime
Myne	Main
High Priest Ferdinand	Head Priest Ferdinand
High Bishop Bezewanst	High Priest Bezewanst
Justus	Eustachius
Shikza	Schicicoza

The 'High Priest' title changing hands between mediums is probably the thing most likely to catch you out when you swap to the books, especially if you do it part way through Part 2, when Myne usually refers to them by title...

jcochran

Minor peeve with Rosina's concern with damaging her hands and any mental observations about the "delicacy and/or daintiness of hands that have never seen physical labor" when seeing Rozemyne's hands. Or for that matter, any noble skilled in playing music on a stringed instrument. Every time I see such a comment, I have to wonder "has the author ever seen the fingertips of a musician who plays a stringed instrument?" Just lookup images of "guitar calluses" or "harp calluses" and you'll soon realize that dainty or delicate have nothing to do with them. Add in an hour or two of daily practice and their creation is inevitable.

Geezer Weasalopes

@jcochran
No question about the calluses, if you don't develop them you stop playing.

But it might be in regard to the condition of the rest of the hands.
There can be a real difference in appearance between the hands of someone doing hard labor involving banging into things, cuts and scrapes, that kind of thing; your sheltered noble musician, no matter how serious about their art and how callused their fingertips, most likely has hands that are far more unblemished in appearance than your commoner musicians would have.

If nothing else cooking accidents; I succeeded in grating the knuckle of my right hand along with the intended cheese some forty years ago, and the scar is still able to be seen.