Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion

unsynchedcheese

This does tie in to my speculations about what Urano (both as Myne and before Myne) believes to be the important part of books.

I'd need to re-read to make sure, but I don't think Myne made an exclusivity contract for the design and manufacture of printers. The sheer precision required to make one is a notable obstacle, but eventually more will spring up, both in Ehrenfest and elsewhere.

What makes Myne's printer (and other printers eventually) significant are what it produces. In this case, Myne's printer will be producing whatever Myne can think up, which at the moment means children's bibles and potentially fairy tales. Other printers can make their own literature, whether tabloids or revolutionary pamphlets. So the importance of printing is in how information can now be disseminated, rather than whose information it is.

I'm wondering if Myne will convince Benno to let knowledge of printer manufacturing into the public domain, or if she doesn't actually care that much either way.

(Also I don't know how far the story wants to carry the Christianity analogue in the setting's religion, so I don't know if Gutenberg will be joined by Martin Luther.)

jcochran

@unsynchedcheese Absolutely true. Just look at our own history. Gutenberg died a pauper. Not exactly what you would expect from someone who changed the world. But also, when he introduced his metal type and the press that used it, there were less than 30 thousand books in all of Europe. Fifty years later, there was something between 20 and 50 million books in the same region. Even if Gutenberg's creditors hadn't confiscated his possessions to pay his debts, there is no way that one person could produce those tens of millions of books. What did produce all those books was the hundreds to thousands of copies of Gutenberg's press and type casting methods.

Another data point to consider involving Myne's intent. Why did she establish a printing guild? You don't need a guild for a single workshop after all. And I'm quite certain Benno realises this as well. So we have plant based paper ... with a guild over it. Ink usable for printing ... with a guild over it. A Printing Guild ... and only one workshop? One of these things is not like the others.

And making a Gutenberg style press requires remarkably little precision. Remember he made his by modifying a wine press whose design had been used for centuries. If you look at a Gutenberg press when it's ready to apply pressure, the layers of material from bottom to top are:

Flat wooden base.
Metal type.
Paper.
Two layers of leather.
Flat wooden surface.
Ball joint to allow 5 above to tilt so as to allow it to apply pressure across entire surface.
Screw to apply pressure.

Now, two things to note are the leather and the ball joint. Those features allow the device to handle quite a bit of misalignment and surface irregularities. Now, the metal type needs to be fairly precise, but the press itself can have quite a bit of slop. And in our history there's a reason that type foundries came into being and very few printers made their own type.

unsynchedcheese

@jcochran Yeah, I was (ironically) imprecise: I meant the precision required for the letter types, which apparently only one apprentice in Ehrenfest is willing to go through the bother to make.

But that doesn't mean he's the only one with the capability to make types, and presumably when other metalworkers figure out the profit to be made here, there will be, as you mentioned, type foundries springing into existence.

I'm convinced (to like a 95% confidence) that Myne deliberately intends for printing to be spread as wide and far as possible, accelerating the timeline compared to our own history, simply because she wants to read more books, and not just books that she herself wrote. So she needs book-making to be spread far and wide and with as few trade restrictions as possible, while she funds her activities with her own books. Which are unique not because they're books, but because of what they contain.

Once again, the value of the information is greater than the value of the medium.

Which is why I'm a little puzzled by the establishment of all these guilds. Historically, guilds are trade protectionist: their practical role is to shut out newcomers and privilege the locals. This seems to be going against my assumption of Myne's goals, so I can only vaguely recall some discussion in-universe about taking things slow to avoid upending society too much. Can't read books in the middle of a violent revolution, after all.

piisfun

@unsynchedcheese I believe that the printing guild was probably mainly meant as a safeguard for protecting herself from the vested interests.

Also, they explicitly noted that everyone in the workshop pitched in to help finish the movable type, though that was mostly to support Johan. However, now that the foreman has seen the potential, I would not be surprised to see them pitchin again.

LurkingMcLurk

Just noticed a funny coincidence. Part 2 Volume 4 will be fully translated on 2020-05-18 in the US, and the author finished the WN version of Part 2 on 2014-05-18 in Japan

TheGrimLich

OK, I keep being struck by this and I have no idea if anyone's mentioned it earlier in the thread, but it is goddamn magical reading this when you've got some knowledge of German, because so many of the gods' areas of concern can be figured out from German words that are similar to their names (the latest to spark this is the fact that the God of War's name (Angriff) literally translates into English as "Attack"). It's like "Oh so the Goddess of Wind is a defense goddess because schutzen (to defend)" or "The Goddess of Earth endures a heck of a lot, must be because she's so geduldig (patient)". Makes it so much fun to read.

TUSF

@TheGrimLich Makes me amused to think how German translators would have to deal with that.

jcochran

@TheGrimLich given the popularity of compound words in German, I find the use of takt from taktstock to rather funny for the magic wands they use. They take a compound word with the literal meaning of "clock stick", which when you think about it, is a fairly accurate description of a conductor's baton, and instead of using the part that means "stick", instead grab the part that means "clock", as if it's temporary association in the compound word somehow transfered the meaning of the shape into the part meaning "clock".

hiroto

@jcochran said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

@TheGrimLich given the popularity of compound words in German, I find the use of takt from taktstock to rather funny for the magic wands they use. They take a compound word with the literal meaning of "clock stick", which when you think about it, is a fairly accurate description of a conductor's baton, and instead of using the part that means "stick", instead grab the part that means "clock", as if it's temporary association in the compound word somehow transfered the meaning of the shape into the part meaning "clock".

Here is the full etymology around this word.

Japanese word for "magic wand" is 魔法の杖 - magic cane. And unfortunately, it is used for both "magic wand" and "magic staff" without distinction, and the predominant image people would get from 魔法の杖 would be that of a long stick, closer to "magic staff".

Next, タクト: takt (taktstock) used by "Myne" in original Japanese to describe "what she see nobles using", is borrowed word from German which is exclusively used for music conductor's batton/wand. It is never used to refer to "magic wand" in general context, nor any other kind of stick. In that regard, abbreviating to takt (clock) is appropriate in a sense that it is rhythm ticking apparatus for a music conductor.
And note that in this series, this word is only used in Myne's narration, and never in dialogue or used by any other characters, because this is something simply came to Myne's mind to describe something she saw, without knowing what it exactly is, and shape and size is such that it is not appropriate to call it "cane".

This clumsiness in the original all got lost in translation, because English has appropriate term "wand" to describe exactly what they are, and using "baton" didn't work well because "music baton" is not the first thing comes to peoples mind in English, and there is no exclusive word to refer to "music conductor's baton". Also even if there is such word, reader would be puzzled "why wouldn't she just call it a wand"?

Also, at the end, author came up with made up word to refer to this magic wand. In P2V3 side story:

“Damuel, you should have used rott as soon as you realized you couldn’t stop Shikza.”
“Rott” was the red light one summoned from their schtappe to call for aid.

And Myne still doesn't know that term.

Libri Liberorum

Bookworm Rhapsody

Is this a new life?
Is this just fantasy?
Crushed by a book pile,
I explore new reality.

Open your eyes,
Look up to your hands and see,
I'm just a poor girl, there's no sterility
Where are books I need, books I know,
Looking high, looking low,
Any dirt the sheets know doesn't really matter to me, to me.

Mama, a quake began
Had shelves around my bed
All my books fell, now I'm dead
Mama, life had just begun,
But now I've gone and thrown it all away.

Mama, ooh,
Didn't mean to make you cry,
I died before I could pay you back at all
Carry on, carry on, not only reading really matters.

Too late, my fever's come,
Sends shivers down my spine,
Body's aching all the time.
Goodbye, everybody, I've got to go,
But I promised Lutz I'd help him, thats the truth.

Lutz-kun, ooh (Any way the wind blows)
I'm prepared to die
I sometimes wish I'd never been reborn at all.

I see a little merchantile pink hair girl
Frieda-san, Frieda-san, will you sell magic items?
Devouring heightening, very very frightening me.
(Mana building) Mana building.
(Mana building) Mana building,
Mana building, overflows.
Magnifico-o-o-o-o.

I'm just a poor girl, nobody cures me
She's just a poor girl from a poor family,
Spare her her life from devouring fatality

Easy come, easy go, will you let me go?
Bismillah! No, we will not let you go. (Let her go!)
Bismillah! We will not let you go. (Let her go!)
Bismillah! We will not let you go. (Let me go!)
Will not let you go. (Let me go!)
Never let you go (Never, never, never, never let me go)
Oh oh oh oh
No, no, no, no, no, no, no
Oh, mama mia, mama mia (Mama mia, let me go.)
Guildmaster has an item put aside for me, for me, for me.

A noble can save me, but I think that the price is too high
My family love me, so I'll stay home with them and die.
Oh, baby, can't do this to me, baby,
Just gotta get out, just gotta get right outta here.

(Ooooh, ooh yeah, ooh yeah)

Reading really matters,
Anyone can see,
Friendship really matters,
Family really matters to me.

(Any way the wind blows)

~ ~ ~ ~
In so far as this is my own work, I license this under the CC0 licence, which is distinguishible from the public domain by a lawyer with a microscope. If you make use of it and Queen's lawyers come knocking on your door, it is not my problem. Also, if you use it elsewhere, I'd appreciate some credit.

I invite improvements. I'm sure it could be fiddled to scan better, and replacements for "anyway the wind blows" and "magnifico" would be appreciated. The line "I died before I could pay you back at all" is lifted directly from the translation, so be aware that if you fiddle with it, you are breaking that link. (But taking the corresponding line from the anime English dub, when it comes out, would be fine.)

I didn't realize when I started this that it would end up being a tear jerker.

alfonso_rd_36

@hopebestman said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

I also wonder one thing. In this world , is there surnames? I mean nobles have family blood , honor and stuff. So maybe at least nobles had family names but i dont remember of hearing Shikza's , Kars' , Damuel's or Ferdinand's family name? If i remember correctly , city got its name from Duke but is it Duke's name or family name i dont remember.

I'm using the Father's name to make the surnames

TenmaGirl1990

spoiler

SomeOldGuy

@TenmaGirl1990 Gunther points out there is only one noble that can use the Ehrenfest name, the archduke.

Rybuuko

I'm fairly sure there aren't any surenames in this world except for nobles to a small degree. I believe they just belong to a certain house or something like that.

hiroto

@Heldawn Conveniently, we never see two person with the same first(?) name in this world. Pretty artificial but consider that a reader service.

Rybuuko

@hiroto said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

@Heldawn Conveniently, we never see two person with the same first(?) name in this world. Pretty artificial but consider that a reader service.

Considering the High Priest gave the rule that the donated baby could not have the same name as anyone else in the orphanage it spells out surnames aren't a thing.

Surnames is not something we've always had in our history. For a long time we only had first names. To state not having surnames is artificial is unreasonable as it is quite possible that they do not.

hiroto

@Heldawn said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

To state not having surnames is artificial is unreasonable as it is quite possible that they do not.

What I'm saying is that no two person with the same first name appear in this story, no matter how much Myne's world expands. THAT is quite artificial for the convenience of the author (and the reader).

Rybuuko

@hiroto said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

@Heldawn said in Ascendance of a Bookworm - General Discussion:

To state not having surnames is artificial is unreasonable as it is quite possible that they do not.

What I'm saying is that no two person with the same first name appear in this story, no matter how much Myne's world expands. THAT is quite artificial for the convenience of the author (and the reader).

Yes that is probably out of convenience for the reader and author because realistically others would have the same name.

TenmaGirl1990

@Heldawn I think HIgh Priest just say so because it would be troublesome if in orphanage two kids share the same name... isn't that more make sense?

Jon Mitchell

conventions for surnames may also vary between commonors and nobles

there's a reason that nobles have polysyllabic names that sound made up/fantastical : Brezenwast or whatever; so far we haven't seen that they have surnames.

spoiler

everyone has a unique given name; someone else has one you like (mother/father/ whoever) make a contraction / hybrid out of several other's names

I suspect that commonors do have surnames (but they might be the 'son of" / 'daughter of' variety...and orphans don't even have that)