Different Payment Methods of Stripe
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Hello,
i am interested in becoming a subscriber, however its going to be unlikely with the current option of only using credit cards, as i will not be getting one anytime soon. i wont demand stuff like Paypal because i know that Stripe is being used and after taking a quick look around their website i see other familiar methods like SEPA, Google Pay and local payment options like the german "Sofort". I have even seen some good pie chards, to detail what kind of methods are used per county on their website. For example in germany, where i am, there are only 22% who use a creditcard. But 23% use SEPA and 15% the "Sofort" method. We germans learn english from childhood as part of school education therefore many do speak it well, considering that Japanese Novels do cater to young adults its only reasonable to consider the demographic that is being missed out on as many also do not have a credit card, unless absolutely necessary.
Of those methods SEPA and Google Pay both allow for recurring payments. "Sofort" does not support recurring payments but is very secure as the customer does not enter any information on the website itself and only does so on the bank´s site.
The availability of Google/Apple Pay is guaranteed in most countries, providing a valueable other source of income, SEPA is available in many countries inside the EU and also USA.Honestly, i do not understand how a buisness does not try to have as many payments methods as they can support with their current payment model, there are customers waiting to throw money at you.
Reconsider your options and you will definitely win many new customers. -
@derdotte-fgn34d9 said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
Honestly, i do not understand how a buisness does not try to have as many payments methods as they can support with their current payment model, there are customers waiting to throw money at you.
It comes down to how much of a cut each of those services want from JNC. Similar to the reasons JNC doesn't do paypal, it's likely many of these other systems (especially payments through iOS and Google) are going to want a significant cut of the transaction. While one way to offset that would possibly be to simply charge more on those platforms, there may be constraints by those services' TOS similar to how credit card companies forbid stores from applying any sort of credit card surcharge on products.
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@jpwong
While the paycut is a reasonable point, i believe there is much more of an opportunity providing more payment options and therefore bringing in customers unable/unwilling to pay with credit card. Of course I dont know the full numbers here, its just a guess based on demographics.Some math:
if we assume that h=10% more are taken from a 5$ payment with another method, we end up with 5*(1-(x+0,1)=y. With x being the already existing cut. If we assume "z" amount of subscribers we have z* 5*(1-x)=n=k* 5(1-x-0,1) with k being new subs. The new amount of subs for this initial investment would be determined by the equation
z(1-x)/(0,9-x))=k=f(x,z)
This would be the equation if every single subscriber were to translate to another payment method, which isnt that likely.
What i am saying is that it isnt that hard given 100 subs and an already existing cut of 25% they would need 16 new subscriber. Given z =z and x = 50% we end up with 1,25*z. So 25% more subscribers, i doubt that they are taking 50% though.
I will refrain from doing any further math, as it doesnt further the point i am trying to make. You could use more generalizations, calculate a gradient field and compare how this function changes providing much more information, with actual numbers it would be super simple to calculate anyway.
Someone with actual numbers on the matter can definitely calculate the costs and profit but i cant see how serving a larger paying demographic will result in less profit.There are many who JNC is missing out on who are willing to pay because of credit card payment only, winning those over with another method is only natural.
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I can't speak to the cost/benefit analysis of taking multiple payment methods - but I can certainly see it being a 'can or worms'
as @jpwong mentions, you can't generally apply a 'service fee' to transactions based on method (terms of service to credit card processors etc, specifically forbid it) and JNC might not want to do the opposite (raise prices of credits and/or memberships, then offer a discount based on payment method) because:- still might violate TOS
- might push cost of credits above kindle price, not good optics
- operational costs of handling multiple revenue streams, each with different policies/procedures
- risk of fraud/ refund rates T's and C's of challenged charges etc.
Am I missing something fundamental about credit cards in Europe? maybe my googling skills are rusty? A quick search shows that Mastercard/VISA prepaid credit cards can be obtained in Germany (physical or virtual) link1, There are costs w/ prepaid cards, but you don't need a credit check or a bank account. I also see lots of banks offering free/ zero fee cards in Germany (if you have an account with them) i.e. Barclays, Santander, Hanseatic Bank. There isn't any such thing as a 'free lunch'; either JNC has to make up the cost of taking PayPal (or whatever) by charging more (to everyone?) or consumers have to bear the cost of having a VISA/MC (either in costs/fees of obtaining a card, or having a bank account)
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https://home.bluesnap.com/snap-center/blog/multiple-payment-gateways/ sets out some of the downsides of having multiple payment providers. That doesn't mean JNC couldn't or shouldn't keep additional payment methods under review, but it helps to explain why they might not have gone down this route already (in addition to particular issues with any given provider which could be a barrier).
JNC get a lot of sales through third party sales so if someone can't get books through JNC they can still get the novels and JNC can still get paid.
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OP is not asking for multiple payment providers. They're asking that JNC enable more of the payment methods that JNC's existing payment provider (Stripe) supports. My store uses Stripe via Shopify, and when other payment methods like Apple Pay and Google Pay were added, all it took for me to add them was to click a checkbox.
That said, J-Novel Club doesn't use Stripe's hosted payment service, they use Stripe's API, which means that the payment user interface is created by J-Novel Club. As such, there may be some additional development effort for J-Novel Club to integrate support for additional Stripe payment methods.
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@Jon-Mitchell said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
Am I missing something fundamental about credit cards in Europe? maybe my googling skills are rusty? A quick search shows that Mastercard/VISA prepaid credit cards can be obtained in Germany (physical or virtual) link1, There are costs w/ prepaid cards, but you don't need a credit check or a bank account. I also see lots of banks offering free/ zero fee cards in Germany (if you have an account with them) i.e. Barclays, Santander, Hanseatic Bank. There isn't any such thing as a 'free lunch'; either JNC has to make up the cost of taking PayPal (or whatever) by charging more (to everyone?) or consumers have to bear the cost of having a VISA/MC (either in costs/fees of obtaining a card, or having a bank account)
Of course they can be obtained, however, we are talking about a young demographic, most definitely between 16-30 years old. While the higher end of that range is much more likely to use credit cards as they are more grounded in life already those on the younger end arent. Everyone above 30 is much less likely to know english well enough to read english books (those that do are the well educated or countries that primarily use english as translation isnt widespread) or be interested enough to read far east light novels.
While some banks do provide free credit cards they also have horrendous fees for specific things that many just dont want to take as a young adult. I am talking about 15€ and more a month at least for just having a bank account with them. Investing 90€ into a one time payment might sound good but those cards naturally include fees too. Not something anyone would spend without a pressing need. There isnt a good reason to only support credit cards in the EU.As you said, my cost/benefit analysis is also not the best (i "only" study physics and informatics) but i could assume that the benefit definitely is larger.
@Shiny said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
https://home.bluesnap.com/snap-center/blog/multiple-payment-gateways/ sets out some of the downsides of having multiple payment providers. That doesn't mean JNC couldn't or shouldn't keep additional payment methods under review, but it helps to explain why they might not have gone down this route already (in addition to particular issues with any given provider which could be a barrier).
JNC get a lot of sales through third party sales so if someone can't get books through JNC they can still get the novels and JNC can still get paid.@Guspaz What he just said, i am not asking for multiple, i am asking to enable more of the options of Stripe.
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Not sure if it's relevant, but https://stripe.com/gb/payments/payment-methods-guide provides a summary of different types of payment supported by Stripe and their pros and cons
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@Shiny said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
Not sure if it's relevant, but https://stripe.com/gb/payments/payment-methods-guide provides a summary of different types of payment supported by Stripe and their pros and cons
Yep, i did take a look before making this topic. Gotta be informed, at least something i have taken away from being surrounded by difficulty study topics.
Anyway back on topic. For the current buisness model of subscription point 2.3 is relevant. Stripe recommends Cards, digital wallets and bank debits. Cards are covered in global customers aswell as the Google and Apple pay methods, for european customers they recommend SEPA and "SOFORT". The asian demographic is unnecessary, North america is credit card land and latin america is too small of a demographic to consider reasonably (economy isnt the best in most countries, reducing buying power).
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Just wanted to jump in and let everyone know we acknowledge this request and will look into it more carefully once the new website has launched.
Whoever said nothing's impossible never tried slamming a revolving door.
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@myskaros said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
Just wanted to jump in and let everyone know we acknowledge this request and will look into it more carefully once the new website has launched.
Thank you for acknowledgeing this request. I request to please keep the community informed on the outcome of your decision.
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@myskaros said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
Just wanted to jump in and let everyone know we acknowledge this request and will look into it more carefully once the new website has launched.
Good to hear. JNC for all!
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I did further calculations using some of the pricing as given by Stripes website:
https://stripe.com/gb/pricing#what-is-includedCredit cards and Debit cards: 1,4% fee +0,2$, means the amount after is 4,68$.
Non European credit cards and debit cards, 4,3% fee +0,4$ with a potential of 2% more taken for currency conversion upper bound: 4,34$.
Both of those methods already include apple and google pay, so there is no extra cut for using google or apple pay through stripe. Both methods are also already used by JNC if i understand this pricing model correctly.
SEPA: 1% fee +0,2$ -> 4,70$ (Better payput than other methods)
SOFORT: same as european CC and DC cards. 4,68$. (Same payout).Considering this newly won knowledge i can only see a reason to postpone adding more methods supported by stripe because of website integration work.Here are some more pricings:
https://stripe.com/gb/pricing/local-payment-methodssmall edit: Naturally this is with default plans, so depending on wether JNC is using other stuff aswell and/or has a custom plan it changes.Large edit: My calculations were a bit wrong, i didnt think about where JNC is located, so i used UK values instead of USA. @Jon-Mitchell below has made the correct calculations.
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Food for thought: if we assume that JNC gets 70% from Kindle sales, then 70% of 6.99 is $4.89.
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@Zehd And Sam has said that he gets the best royalties when you buy straight from JNC, so there has to be some math wrong here.
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@LegitPancake reverse mathing this, it seems to be taking a base value of $4.95, so they are referring to the subscription, not credits. Going by those fees, a regular 7$ credit would net $6.70 for JNC, and a premium credit would be a net $5.71 for JNC
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@derdotte-fgn34d9 said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
I did further calculations using some of the pricing as given by Stripes website:
https://stripe.com/gb/pricing#what-is-includedCredit cards and Debit cards: 1,4% fee +0,2$, means the amount after is 4,68$.
Non European credit cards and debit cards, 4,3% fee +0,4$ with a potential of 2% more taken for currency conversion upper bound: 4,34$.
Both of those methods already include apple and google pay, so there is no extra cut for using google or apple pay through stripe. Both methods are also already used by JNC if i understand this pricing model correctly.
SEPA: 1% fee +0,2$ -> 4,70$ (Better payput than other methods)
SOFORT: same as european CC and DC cards. 4,68$. (Same payout).Considering this newly won knowledge i can only see a reason to postpone adding more methods supported by stripe because of website integration work.
Here are some more pricings:
https://stripe.com/gb/pricing/local-payment-methodssmall edit: Naturally this is with default plans, so depending on wether JNC is using other stuff aswell and/or has a custom plan it changes.
quick match check: (all in U.S. Dollars)
- JNC is HQ in USA so I'm looking at the USA site vs the the UK site linked above, the 'base' rate is 2.9% + $0.30.
- so standard/monthly membership cost $4.95/ month nets JNC approx $4.51(not sure how they round)
- and a standard credit which costs $7.00 and nets JNC approx $6.49
- a typical ebook via amazon/kindle lists for $7.99 and nets JNC approx $5.59
(premium members pay more per month, but get 1 included credit per month and discount on purchased credits)
now these calculations are based on 'integrated' plan- not a custom /whatever plan JNC actually has . This is relevant because Stripe's base rate is EXACTLY the same as PayPal's base rate (cost to sellers)
so I can't imagine the approximately $.50 is the sticking point on taking PayPal...there must be other operational costs in working with them (maybe automation already in place for Stripe just doesn't work for PayPal? maybe doing accounting is a bigger hassle? ) who knows?
I read banned books
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@Jon-Mitchell ah yes, the page for the USA is different. I did not consider where their HQs are, thats my fault. Your calculations are the corrected values.
I believe the grouping of methods is similar though, so there are no extra costs involved by adding google pay and apple pay. While stuff like SEPA and SOFORT might be different.Edit: The correct page in question would be
https://stripe.com/pricing/local-payment-methods
It lists SEPA and SOFORT at 2,9% + $0,3. Exactly the same as card usage. Which also does include apple and google pay already. I will edit my post above to reflect that i missed out on considering where they are located. -
I'm hoping this all becomes moot once the new website is up. I get that obtaining a credit/debit card might not be convenient to all people in all places. Google/Apple pay (as a proxy for credit card vs. payments in the apple store/ google play store) should be nearly equivalent to overhead of taking a VISA/MC (purchases via the respective stores have a hefty commission charge)
now if folks till say: "only taking credit cards, apple pay, and google pay is a barrier to me buying a membership/credits" I don't know how to respond
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@Jon-Mitchell said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
I'm hoping this all becomes moot once the new website is up. I get that obtaining a credit/debit card might not be convenient to all people in all places. Google/Apple pay (as a proxy for credit card vs. payments in the apple store/ google play store) should be nearly equivalent to overhead of taking a VISA/MC (purchases via the respective stores have a hefty commission charge)
now if folks till say: "only taking credit cards, apple pay, and google pay is a barrier to me buying a membership/credits" I don't know how to respond
Google/Apple pay is much simpler to setup (only needs a bank account, that doesnt need to include a credit card). Earlier i already said, that a younger demographic isnt likely to use credit cards. Depending on country its even less likely as stuff like Google/Apple pay is widespread. The purpose of this topic is to raise awareness to JNC and others that you dont need paypal to have more methods available for customers and to consider which demographic one targets. Japanese light novels are targeted towards young adults. Eitherway, from what can be read by the integrated plan the extra costs are non existent for more methods. Therefore my equation from earlier is simply just new subscribers = old subscribers upon the change of plan. Leaving the only issue of integrating the payment methods into the upcoming website.
