Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.

Zing

I hate it when protagonist saves the day, but his harem start giving him shit for not being tactful enough, and he starts apologising.

Windsagio

On a hate/love thing, I'm thinking about how mechanical some of the writing is;

Like I'm enjoying "Formerly Fallen", but the Otome game plot seems bizarrely stapled on to what would have been a functional story anyways, and they even seems set on forgetting parts of it as quickly as they can.

This begs the question "Why did you need to use that setting again?"

kuali

@Windsagio Because it was popular at the time, obviously!

Sometimes authors really do just tick boxes to get their work noticed. Even if it is ultimately detrimental to the work.

marcus_atticus

It really irks me to see works that say something along the lines of trying to differentiate itself from tropes but it ends being the very thing they try to distinguish itself from. For example, some that says not unlike those other manga/light novel etc that does x and y and then the story proceeds to devolve itself into it. Another example is I don’t want to stand out then they proceed to do x and y and end up standing out anyway then they repeat it so many times. It just comes out to me as lazy writing.

kuali

@marcus_atticus I agree with the first one you've got there, definitely. If I came for the subversion and then everything gets played straight, I've basically been tricked into reading a very different story from what I wanted to read...

Less sure about the second point. Sure, it can be bad writing, but in cases where its used to show the character's actual priorities - like Myne drawing unwanted attention to protect the people and books around her, or Sei doing the same each time she healed the knights in her first two books - or cases where the series is a comedy and the character being a bit of a dumbass is part of the joke (like Fia) - it works pretty well, I think.

Folker46

I'd have to say time crunching. In too many LN, everything is happening in just a few weeks or months. How not to Summon a Demon Lord has this problem. Everything Diablo goes through covers just a few months (not even a year), and he hardly has time to catch his breath before he's whisked away on another adventure. I kind of like how Unemployed Reincarnate does it where years pass between events, but it also makes the story seem more like a biography and less like an adventure novel. (sigh)

Mile from Didn't I Say to Make My Abilities Average in the Next Life?! is definitely one of those "I don't want to stand out..." than does everything she can (accidently?) to stand out. The anime is funny and needs a second season but the LNs get boring, what other people are going through is more interesting than her story.

kuali

@Folker46 Yeah, I know the feeling with the time ~~compression~~ crunching.

@kuali said in Cooking with Wild Game Vol. 18 Discussion:

So, we've covered 5 months in 18 books. At this rate, Asuta and Ai Fa's anniversary will come around volume... uh, 44! Ish!

As for Average Abilities... the spinoff gag manga is, at this point, better than the main series, I think. The series plot just isn't much of a draw - especially once the elder dragons got hit with Villain Decay and stopped being credible threats to Mile. So a spinoff that ignores the plot to just concentrate on the cast being crazy isn't sacrificing much in exchange for the extra laughs. I don't remember the anime too well, but I had the same basic impression of it - the usual adaptation compression just concentrated the gags, and cutting outs bits and pieces of the plot for time could be done without losing anything too important.

Folker46

@kuali I liked reading about what The Wonder Trio were going through and Lily's Miracle (spin off LN) was really good, if predictable.
But the main story is moving so slowly, it feels like the author has no idea what to do with it and is just making it up as he goes along. No plan means it will prob get abandoned when the author gets bored.

Lily Garden

One pet peeve that almost always annoys me is when the illustrations don’t match a description given in the text. It just rubs me the wrong way, even though I understand that the illustrations are a product of a separate creator than the author of the story, and naturally this will cause some discrepancies.

Lex

@Lily-Garden agreed, it can be annoying. Easier to accept when you know the illustrator has a specific art style that might not match well with the description, but when for example a character has different hair color in the text and in the illustrations I can't help but wonder what is the canon.

Regarding time compression, I don't have a problem if a story covers a limited amount of time, but especially in battle series you often end with the issue that the protagonists catch up in weeks or months with characters with years (or even centuries) of experience and that requires a bit of suspention of disbelief.

Campbella

@Lily-Garden This! Little details not matching doesn't bother me but I've seen some where a like 8 year old kid was drawn as an adult with lots of muscles - that bothers me. Makes me wonder why they're even doing the illustrations if they can't be bothered to read at least the section that they're drawing

Windsagio

@Lily-Garden Special call out to Land Mines, which I don't think has actually had an illustration without a major error yet.

BartzBB

I'm really curios if the illustrator;
a. actually reads the book then decides what scene to draw
b. the author decides and describes the scene to be drawn
c. the editor decides and describes the scene to be drawn

I'm leaning towards C since if it's A or B then it's very unlikely for them to get it wrong since they just wrote/read the book. For C, the editor might have made a mistake because they were busy since they are handling multiple authors.

kuali

@BartzBB It could also be a timing issue; In large projects with multiple groups working together, its hardly unknown to have to do your part of the project to a spec produced before the project begins, rather than against the actual product of the other groups involved. (Admittedly, I work in software development, not publishing...)

But I wouldn't be surprised if they have equivalent issues - art gets commissioned based on whatever outline you have ready at the time, and if later redrafts change the story enough it no longer matches the commissioned art... tough.

The infamous Haruka Teleport from Land MInes, for instance, would make a lot of sense if the art was commissioned against an early draft where Haruka was present on the trip, only for the final version to leave her out... except for her appearance in the already completed illustration.

Windsagio

@kuali That seems likely, although it's also harder with the slightly-less infamous "Nao looking backward pensively holding onto his destroyed spear" pic.

HarmlessDave

@BartzBB said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

b. the author decides and describes the scene to be drawn
c. the editor decides and describes the scene to be drawn

I've seen B mentioned in afterwords so the author making requests and the editor making the final decisions seems likely to me.

Working from rough drafts or even the webnovel also seems likely since many authors have mentioned barely making their deadlines or even needing extensions. My guess is they don't have time to wait and start on the art at that point they need it finished and included in the page count.

unknownmat

@Folker46 said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

I'd have to say time crunching. In too many LN, everything is happening in just a few weeks or months.

Good point. This is especially egregious in series where the characters need to go through major growth - such as physical training, or a mindset revision. People just don't change over weeks or months. It's not really believable that a character can go from zero to demonlord slayer in a few months. I'm currently noticing this in Black Summoner, where the protagonist's personal growth compared with that of the other characters in-world makes no real sense. Yes, he gets double points, but I suspect the author doesn't really understand the difference between linear vs exponential growth curves... the protagonist's growth should be a linear factor improvement, but the growth being described is exponential. This really cheapens his victories, and makes the rest of the in-world characters seem incompetent.

I guess one point of contrast here is that I think Kouki from Arifureta gets a lot of unfair criticism due to a failure of readers to take time crunching into account. The story only takes place over a few months and there just isn't enough time for him to become the better person he needs to become - and thus the inevitable tragedy.

Folker46

Maybe it's just me but I'll getting pretty sick of OP characters. Power fantasies are one thing but when it reaches a ridicules level it's not fun to read. Plus, there seem to be an increase in the LNs that hate on isekai characters, even making them out to be evil troublemakers who need to die. I can see someone who was a nobody going mad with power but when you say EVERY isekai will go crazy I just feel offended. There are just too many LNs being printed that are poorly written, have a bad concept, and are just boring as hell.

kuali

@Folker46 said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

Maybe it's just me but I'll getting pretty sick of OP characters. Power fantasies are one thing but when it reaches a ridicules level it's not fun to read.

Eh, they're not everyone's cup of tea.

Personally, I find a series with an OP protagonist that just concentrates on how OP they are will get boring after a while - but that's less a problem with the OP-ness, and more the repetitiveness. Such series can keep themselves interesting a lot longer if they mix up their fare a little - some bits where the protag gets to show off, some bits where they have to fight with their brains instead of the brawn, some bits where they're shoved face to face with moral quandries or no-win situations, some situations where their powers won't or shouldn't be used, and a sprinkling of villains on (or above) their own power level, just to keep things interesting.

Kinda like what Superman's been doing to stay in publication since my grandparents were young...

@Folker46 said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

Plus, there seem to be an increase in the LNs that hate on isekai characters, even making them out to be evil troublemakers who need to die. I can see someone who was a nobody going mad with power but when you say EVERY isekai will go crazy I just feel offended.

How many of those series do you know of? The only one I can think of offhand is The Executioner and Her Way of Life...

spoiler

GeorgeMTO

@kuali said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

How many of those series do you know of? The only one I can think of offhand is The Executioner and Her Way of Life...

Instant Death is another