Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.

unknownmat

@HarmlessDave Ah, good one. I can't tell you how often I've purchased a manga thinking it was a LN. And going through their refund process for digital purchases is annoying.

I have so many little annoyances with Amazon.

The fact that they don't always group series properly and it's not always easy to search for the latest volume in a series. I've even had the "next volume" button take me to the Manga rather than the next LN.
The fact that I have to learn what passages other uses have highlighted. Gee, good thing they tell me what I'm supposed to care about. It would be tragic if I were forced to decide that for myself.
The refresh function sucks, I'm never certain if I have the latest version of a book. I once purchased a Bookworm volume that contained the guts for Archdemon's Dilemma, and this didn't correct itself after 6+ months, despite being a known issue. I actually wound up going through multiple rounds of refunds and repurchases before I got the right book.
They nag me incessantly over series I don't care about ("A new book by FUNA that you might be interested in..."), while failing to keep me updated about series that I'm genuinely anticipating.
Unrelated to LNs, but the recent attempt by Kindle to gamify my reading. "You've received an achievement..." JFC! Can't I be allowed one actual human experience without these assholes trying to reduce it to a meaningless act of point accumulation?

I feel like the list should be much longer, but that's all I can think of for now.

kuali

@unknownmat Reading achievements, seriously? Ugh, that does sound awful.

What do people think about other ebook stores? I'm primarily a kobo user these days, and I have... no particularly strong feelings about the store. Other than occasional issues with their series grouping, too (though I've generally seen Kobo accidentally splitting one series into two series rather than smooshing the novels and manga together haphazardly).

Of course, 'no particularly strong feelings' does seem to rank it above the modern kindle experience...

saidahgilbert

@unknownmat said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

the recent attempt by Kindle to gamify my reading.

I actually like the achievements. It made me use the Android app more. I used to use only my Kindle or the PC app and the PC app doesn't show everything that you would see on the Android app. I still don't really use it to read but now it has more of a justification for being on my phone.

unknownmat

@saidahgilbert said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

I actually like the achievements.

Fair enough. To each his own. I just wish they let me turn it off.

rsog412

@kuali said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

What do people think about other ebook stores?

Bookwalker has a ~~very nice~~ adequate web-reader (it lacks accessibility features, copy-and-paste, etc.). For books that I just want to read once and don't care very much about whether I actually own a copy (or whether some corporation could arbitrarily revoke my access without compensation), I have no complaints.

Obviously, their selection is limited to just publishers that deal in translated Japanese novels, of course.

Geezer Weasalopes

@kuali said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

What do people think about other ebook stores?

GooglePlay seems to have ceased allowing the downloading of manga, so I no longer purchase manga through them; there isn't any official statement to indicate this, not can you tell it's the case until after you make the purchase and discover there's no option to export/download.
I suspect it has to do with file size, but that's just a guess.
Kobo has the exact same items and also uses Adobe Digital Editions for their DRM management and has no problem allowing the downloads...Google can't handle the bandwidth? For realz?!
Thankfully GooglePlay is a cinch for refunds if done within a day or so...and you did the proper user authentication for each and every title purchased, the two-factor stuff.
Barnes & Noble has long since phased out their non-app offline reader for Windows.

So these days my ranking is

Purchase direct from the publisher when possible.
Kobo.
GooglePlay.

I think Bookwalker edges out Amazon Kindle at this time when both carry the desired item.

Last being Barnes & Noble Nook. For a variety of reasons, which is ironic given at one time it was my first place for purchases other than the publisher.

So far as I can tell Bookwalker is the only major digital outlet that hasn't removed manga/LNs for dumb reasons.

Travis Butler

TBH, I don’t like the readers for any of the online stores, except maybe Apple’s. So priority 1 is letting me use any reader - which means either DRM-free stores like JNC, or an easy way to remove it. Nook started out ok there, but crashed and burned several years ago. These days, that’s Kobo, but it’s still a fair amount of hassle. If I don’t want the hassle, I go with Apple’s store, which I think also gives a better customer UI - but no chance of reading the purchases elsewhere.

Amazon is at the bottom of the list, alongside Nook.

HarmlessDave

I only buy from Amazon (when I can't get DRM free from the publisher) because I have a kindle e-ink reader and am happy with that if not their store.

I also buy western fantasy and SF, and have (checks store) 482 books in my library. Switching to a different e-ink reader brand would be a pain at this point.

unknownmat

FWIW, I don't hate the Amazon reader or experience, despite my various frustrations with it.

I like the Kindle reader well enough. For example, I like to read vertically using "continuous mode" (IMO, it's silly to be limited to the idea of a "physical page" in an electronic medium)*, and the Kindle reader does that better than any other reader I've found.
Convenience of having my entire library in one place, accessible any time and anywhere
Convenience of not having to download and manage separate files
Ability to setup a kids account for my daughter that I can manage. I have complete control over which books I allow her to read.
Ability to report typos in-app

* There's a whole rant about physical metaphors in digital media. "Kinetic UI" always struck me as a bad idea, for example. Digital artifacts don't have mass, or momentum, or velocity, so why do we waste so much time pretending they do?

geetop

I like to read LitRPG which means I need access to Kindle Unlimited which is the home for most of the genre. I like using my Kobo Forma for Library books since it has Overdrive built into its user interface. The Kobo also has much clearer text and if you use Dark Mode it really shines compared to the kindle experience.

unknownmat

Another grievance occurred to me...

I hate dream sequences, or any other segment that is meant to be treated as metaphorical/symbolic. This is particularly frustrating when it happens right in the middle of an action sequence, and/or is meant to be a key turning point in the story. For example, the dream might convince the protagonist to finally accept his fate as the hero of desitny or else provide the hero some key insight into the true nature of his powers, etc.

My issue(s) with dreams/symbolism:

They often often interrupt otherwise fast-paced action sequences. I want to know what happens! If you're going to put me in suspense there had better be a big payoff!
Dreams are boring. I don't care about your dreams! Dreams are never as interesting or significant to other people as they are to you (just like any story that begins with: "This one time when I was so drunk...", is never as funny as you thinks it is).
There is little payoff for all the mental effort. Because the dream isn't "actually" happening, you lose the entire context of the existing setting, and are thus forced to build up a disposable setting that has no impact on the story itself. This can be a gross violation of Chekhov's Gun.
They aren't bound by constraints. The events and objects within the dream may or may not be significant and may or may not have any impact on the story, completely at the author's convenience. It's even possible for the author to decide this retroactively. This basically shifts the burden onto the reader and forces us to keep the whole dream in mind on the off-chance that some seemingly extraneous detail turns out to be important, even though most of the details are not and can be safely forgotten.
It can be a cheap way to insert character progression without the trouble of otherwise setting up the characters/events in such a way that the protagonist can gain this insight organically. This is just lazy writing.
At worst, it can be a deus ex machina (e.g. the protag suddenly realizes the dark lord's key weakness), that cheapens the protagonist's struggles.

unknownmat

Another grievance - magic systems that depend on the power of imagination.

This can be done better or worse, but the basic issue with imagination is that it is unlimited and imprecise. You can say anything, but it's highly debatable whether being able to describe something is the same thing as imagining it.

The best analogy I can come up with is the game that young kids will sometimes play trying to name the biggest number. "I attack you with the power of one thousand suns", "Well I attack you with one million suns", "I attack you with a bajillion suns!", "I attack you with a black hole!", "I attack with the big bang!". Of course the example is a silly one, but you'll note that the numbers quickly stop being actual numbers, and the progression doesn't follow any meaningful curve nor even the laws of mathematics itself. It's nearly impossible for a sensical outcome to result from a "power of imagination" battle.

Programmers straddle this reality every day. A feature that can be described by a short sentence, might nevertheless take a week to implement. Any implementation needs to deal with all the corner cases and fiddly details that a simple description can gloss over as "common sense". But computers don't have common sense, and neither should your magic system without some really careful setup.

Without reasonable constraints the magic system easily leads to ridiculous outcomes. For example, an unrestrained teleportation ability would allow for the creation of a infinite energy that would benefit the world far more than stopping a few petty criminals, or a gravity-bomb that would be far more devastating than even the greatest super power. Etc.

This occurred to me while reading Frieren and the one character who's only middlingly powerful unless she can clearly imagine herself cutting you at which point her attack power becomes infinite. As much as I like the story of Frieren, the magic system is just a giant eyeroll at this point.

HarmlessDave

@unknownmat said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

Another grievance - magic systems that depend on the power of imagination.

I'd say it can be good or bad depending on the author and the limits they put on it, or as you put it: This can be done better or worse.

It's common in LNs and western fantasy you need to visualize shaping formless mana into some effect, but there are limits like the amount of mana you can shape, how precisely you can control it, the distance over which you can maintain control, and limits to how much the mana can ignore or sidestep Earth physical laws.

JNC's Water Mage is a good example of this, and adds that it is difficult to impossible to shape mana near living beings, and those other beings might have better control over the local mana than you do. Zero Believers is somewhat similar in that mana control is a huge force multiplier.

Just having the idea of "a sword that can cut through dimensions" doesn't get you anywhere if there are enough constraints, like it taking more mana or finer control than even an OP MC is capable of. It's up to the author to create believable and entertaining limits and to stick to them.

Of course if you only enjoy reading about ritual magic or programming style magic (Death March) there's nothing wrong with that. We like what we like, and are annoyed by what annoys us :)

unknownmat

@HarmlessDave said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

It's up to the author to create believable and entertaining limits and to stick to them.

Well said. This is one area where authors without a strong STEM background might want to read some physics. It's easy to accidentally come up with a system that can lead to absurdities. I'm reminded of The Belgariad's "The Will and The Word" system. Although Eddings tried to constrain things, he never succeeded.

kuali

@unknownmat Yeah, the 'using Sorcery takes as much effort as doing things by mundane means' rule would have worked a lot better in a series where the male lead didn't end up walking around with half the power in the universe strapped to his back.

However, the Belgariad/Malloreon actually did have a restriction on the use of sorcery that I think worked pretty well - the noise it made. You can't magic your way past every problem if using it just tells your numerous enemies where to find you...

sorvani

I want to drop in on a couple of tropes with some real life experience. First of all, I am so tired of one or both of these tropes being in like almost every single novel. I agree with other people commenting on how annoying they are normally presented.

Female bust size jealousy
Rice/soy sauce/wtfever food

I was born and raised in midwestern farm town and live in Chicagoland right now. I went to Japan in 2005 for the first time and had a blast (toured Production I.G. studio in fact). Some time later, I met a Japanese lady and eventually married her. We've been married over 15 years now.

Now related to 1 and 2 above:

While dating, she discussed getting a boob job as soon as she moved to the U.S. because she felt small.
If we go more than 5 days without an authentic Japanese dish things get gloomy. I have a subscription to Cookpad on her phone because of this.

sorvani

@unknownmat said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

I'm reminded of The Belgariad's "The Will and The Word" system. Although Eddings tried to constrain things, he never succeeded.

I think the Belgariad series worked extremely well with it's magic system. Now this is also because there was not "modern knowledge" injected onto something as simple as the will and the word. Because as a teenager reading those books the first time around, I absolutely thought of ways to use it better and/or abuse it.

@kuali said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

However, the Belgariad/Malloreon actually did have a restriction on the use of sorcery that I think worked pretty well - the noise it made. You can't magic your way past every problem if using it just tells your numerous enemies where to find you..

This restriction was situational and thus only worked well in the series because most of the time that sorcery was important, it was in combat or stealth type missions where there were opponents that could detect it.

HarmlessDave

@unknownmat in somewhat fairness to the Belgariad, there were some good ideas about constraints and consequences, like controlling the weather to make some fancy lightning strikes could destabilize the weather across the continent and take months to fix. Or that trying to unmake (vs. destroy) anything would unmake you instead.

Wasn't there also the chance that failing to have a strong enough will or strength to gather the power to enact the word would ...kill you? turn you into a newt?... it's been too long since I read the books :)

I agree that there weren't very predictable limits to what anyone could do beyond "whatever the plot requires."

kuali

@sorvani said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

This restriction was situational and thus only worked well in the series because most of the time that sorcery was important, it was in combat or stealth type missions where there were opponents that could detect it.

If the rules let the powers be useful and cool while keeping them from breaking the plot, that's really all they need to accomplish, no?

@sorvani said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

While dating, she discussed getting a boob job as soon as she moved to the U.S. because she felt small.

Suddenly finding yourself outclassed by everyone and wanting to fit in seems way more normal than instant envy any time an individual happens to be better endowed than you are...

@HarmlessDave said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:

Wasn't there also the chance that failing to have a strong enough will or strength to gather the power to enact the word would ...kill you? turn you into a newt?... it's been too long since I read the books :)

Overexertion was a 'Kill you' thing. They also raised the possibility that it could strip you of the power of Sorcery at one point. Neither ever happened on-page, though (and Belgarion explicitly exceeds this limit by using the Orb), so it wasn't much of a restriction in practice.

sorvani

One of the larger issues I have is so many authors not even attempting to understand time. I'm blanking on naming a specific series or example right now, but I'll describe the issue.

You have long lived races elves/dragon but treat 100 years ago as ancient history. Even if your entire human population is dumber than a box of rocks, the long lived races still know everything that happened. Basically anything less than a generation for your longest lived race will not be forgotten.

How hard is it to actually scribble out a timeline on a piece of paper and then follow it. When you want to add something a book or two later refer to the timeline.

I do not write coherent narrative stories, but 10 years ago I decided to spin off my D&D campaign from the shared world that I had started the game inside of in 1999. Our original "realm" we called it the Forgotten Mess since it was a pieced together planet mostly based on Toril. But when I split into my new multiverse I wrote up simple timeline of major events that I wanted to have as background knowledge for the players. As the games have proceeded since then I have added more detail to the timeline as the players go in their various ways, or as players create new character and want a new history added.

So, when a players asks about the legend of the Axe of the Dwarvish Lords, I look at the timeline and pick the fall of a dwarven mountain to invaders 5000 years ago as the last time it was seen. Did I plan that out? Heck no, world building is hard. But Just a little planning can make expanding or adding easy without being stupidly unrealistic.