JNC Writing Support Group
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@jazzyjeoff said in JNC Writing Support Group:
@Damon-Cavalchini
How much do you want to share? Passages? Chapters? Or entire works? How private do you want it to be?I am sure there is an app for that but I don’t know which one. Two things that come to mind are:
- google docs: If folks were really serious we could set up new anonymized google accounts just for this purpose and share on docs. We could maintain an invite list on a separate thread. Folks could invite and uninvite as they see fit. Folks could share as much or as little as they want.
- Wattpad—it is easy to publish and unpublish chapters and providing links is easy and it is as anonymous as you want it to be—but there is no keeping strangers out—but if you title your work with uninteresting names and no tags not many folks will look at it anyways.
Hi there,
It wasn’t that I had something specific to share but that I thought the functionality could be really useful if someone is looking for feedback on an idea like the villain backstory example we were discussing.
However I can see it becoming useful after the first round of responses is released and when/if the competition opens again.
Especially for those people who don’t get feedback from the competition, it could be useful to be able to share work in a safe environment to get feedback from your peers.
I’d lean towards Google Docs as it slightly more private and can be locked to members of the group to avoid any questions around publishing or polluting the market.
I thought it might be better to set it up now rather than wait until the end of March so we can work out any kinks and also help people become familiar with it without having to possibly deal with external disappointments as well.
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@Damon-Cavalchini
There may be a better way—but here is the idea in more detail (of course, if folks have a better idea, please chime in).
Well, all folks would have to do is set up a google account, separate from their normal google account. A manager could start a thread with the contact list of folks that are up for providing input as the first post as a sort of sticky. They would be responsible for maintaining the list. Folks that want to be added as a reviewer/ participant would just add their google contact to the thread and the person maintaining the thread could add it to the top. (I strongly suggest not giving out your main google account contact). Folks could just send invites to look at their work, or a portion of it directly to whoever they want from the thread.
That said, folks interests, writing ability and writing styles may vary so much that it may not work. (for example, I am very much a beginner writer, I am prone to careless mistakes, and have no interest in reading things that I find depressing—that might drive some folks crazy!) But it might be fun to try—and really even if you could match up with one decent reviewer, it would be worth it. -
@jazzyjeoff Thanks. Lots of great ideas and the principle sounds good to me. I may have a look at some options (unless anyone else with far better skills than me wants to jump in). Being a dinosaur I haven’t really looked at how the forums work here.
You don’t need to be a professional editor to review or offer advice on a story. We all (I assume) like reading and having by a variety of reader viewpoints is really useful as they are the people we eventually hope to reach.
I fell into light novels because I was tired of reading heavy/depressing works. Light novels can tackle deep issues but they also don’t have a problem with being entertaining as well.
I guess at the end of the day I was thinking of ways to ensure this community continues to grow and support each other.
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I'm prone to vanishing at times due to poor health and frequent hospitalizations, so it's fine with me if anyone else wants to volunteer as a manager. Personally, I've been using Google docs to share my writing with beta readers, and that's been pretty convenient for everyone involved.
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@Alfaerin - I hope your health settles and we continue to see you here.
I can have a look at the forum rules and see what is needed to set something up on the weekend.
The only hassle I can see is being in a completely different time zone (I’m in Australia) than most people here.
Unless someone sees a major issue with this approach? It shouldn’t violate any rules as there won’t be any money involved and the stories won’t be broadly shared but held within a restricted group of people.
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@Damon-Cavalchini Fellow Aussie, G'day.
I won't be partaking in the sharing of novels, mainly because I don't particularly have enough time to reciprocate any reading. It would be unfair to expect others to read my work without doing the same.
On another note, the mad rush to complete my LN for this comp has left me burnt out and caused me to go on hiatus for my other novel. Hoping I'll scrape together some more motivation in the next coming weeks/months.
Perhaps the lack of motivation is tied to me coming to the end of my work contract which I know will not be extended (maternity contract). Anyway, I digress.
Good luck with the novel sharing, I think it's a good idea.
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@LeeroyCGNA said in JNC Writing Support Group:
@Damon-Cavalchini Fellow Aussie, G'day.
I won't be partaking in the sharing of novels, mainly because I don't particularly have enough time to reciprocate any reading. It would be unfair to expect others to read my work without doing the same.
On another note, the mad rush to complete my LN for this comp has left me burnt out and caused me to go on hiatus for my other novel. Hoping I'll scrape together some more motivation in the next coming weeks/months.
Perhaps the lack of motivation is tied to me coming to the end of my work contract which I know will not be extended (maternity contract). Anyway, I digress.
Good luck with the novel sharing, I think it's a good idea.
Hi there @LeeroyCGNA. I’m sorry to hear about work and the post-competition malaise. Look after yourself and jump in when you can.
Before this competition, I’d actually put writing aside for several years because it was too hard trying to balance work, writing and family life.
One thing I want to stress is that there is no expectation people will reciprocate. Some people like reading and feel confident reviewing while others do not.
If your motivation comes back - and this is entirely up to you with everything happening in life - and you want to put something up for a second pair of eyes then you should feel free.
I expect we will find some people who are great reviewers here while others may not feel comfortable. Ideally this will be an inclusive and supportive process and will settle into a rhythm before the first round announcements are out.
I plan to draft a basic set of ‘suggestions’ for how it can work on the weekend which hopefully everyone likes.
I’ll drop them here for comment before doing anything so anyone can also have their say.
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Hi there,
Here’s a basic suggestion for some guideline for people to share and review system/threads may works. These aren’t rules but a series of ideas to help encourage everyone participate in a friendly and supportive environment.
General Guideline Suggestions:
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Be nice. This doesn’t mean we have to gush wildly about every work but that all criticism should be constructive and about the work itself.
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Everyone can post a story, chapter, snippet, idea for feedback regardless of how new or experienced a writer they are.
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There is no expectation that people who submit things for consideration will also review. By the same token people can review without submitting something. Readers’ opinions are as important as writers’.
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You don't need to do a full, line-by-line review or anything. Be as detailed or short as you want. Just remember the original poster is looking for your thoughts and advice so just writing "Great story" isn't really helpful.
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If you don’t like the subject matter, type of story, etc then please don’t review or at least call that out so people can consider your comments in context. I know some people don’t like Isekai or romance or horror or whatever. So long as you are up-front about it if you leave a review then that’s okay.
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In terms of what can be submitted, let’s adopt the same guidelines as the J-Novel competition. That way we can be ready for if/when the next round opens. Works should be original and not previously published for money, etc. That’s not to say we don’t to see your 1,500-word R rated fantasy novel, Lord of the Things, but that this is outside the nature of this group.
How would it work?
We’ll set up a separate topic for where things for review can be submitted. The suggestion is that you add a post with the title of your piece for consideration and a Google Doc link (preferably not your main Google Account as @jazzyjeoff suggested). People would then reply to this initial post with their review/comments.
I did debate using the private chat function for reviews but that will prevent discussion about the story and the reviews themselves. By sharing both, we can all learn what people are commenting and can discuss common threads etc. And, by making any responses public, both the submitter and reviewer have to be prepared to own their responses.
Ideally I would have preferred to be able create threads within the topic but I can’t figure out how to do that.
How does that sound to everyone? Do we want to go ahead?
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Hi there,
As a completely different solution, it’s been pointed out that J-Novel Club actually already have a creative writing discord where we can swap materials and get feedback.
It has a small membership at the moment but we could also move across. This gets rid of the need to share Google Doc links and so on.
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@Damon-Cavalchini said in JNC Writing Support Group:
Hi there,
As a completely different solution, it’s been pointed out that J-Novel Club actually already have a creative writing discord where we can swap materials and get feedback.
It has a small membership at the moment but we could also move across. This gets rid of the need to share Google Doc links and so on.
The #creative-writing channel on the JNC discord does still tend to use google docs though for anything larger than two or three paragraphs, it's too hard to review in channel otherwise as it scrolls up with the chat.
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@Hylebos said in JNC Writing Support Group:
@Damon-Cavalchini said in JNC Writing Support Group:
Hi there,
As a completely different solution, it’s been pointed out that J-Novel Club actually already have a creative writing discord where we can swap materials and get feedback.
It has a small membership at the moment but we could also move across. This gets rid of the need to share Google Doc links and so on.
The #creative-writing channel on the JNC discord does still tend to use google docs though for anything larger than two or three paragraphs, it's too hard to review in channel otherwise as it scrolls up with the chat.
Thanks. I haven’t tried the creative writing group (I didn’t even know it existing until it was pointed out to me).
So - the plan would be to still go ahead here using the guidelines above?
The only rule we have have been asked to follow is to not publish anything that has been submitted to the competition. Sequel, follow-up, short stories in the same universe are all fair game but not your actual submissions.
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@Damon-Cavalchini Thank you for the kind words ^^ Not that it stopped me from winding up in the hospital yet again, but I do appreciate the thought.
Regarding the rules, I have some suggestions for things to add:
For rule number one, mention that writing a story is to take a part of yourself and put it into words. Sharing the result with others and opening yourself up to criticism is hard, and it's easy to take things personally. Call on reviewers to be tactful and keep criticism constructive, and remind writers to be polite in their responses. Explain that while criticism is hard to hear, it shouldn't be viewed negatively; it helps you grow as a writer when people tell you what needs improving. Also mention that criticism is subjective, and shouldn't necessarily always be acted on. If you're unsure whether to follow advice or not, suggest asking for more opinions first.
For rule number four, I suggest adding some specific questions for reviewers to consider while they read, like "who was your favorite character and why?" or "What part of the story was your least favorite, and why?" Also provide examples of what kinds of feedback are helpful and not helpful. Good feedback tells the writer specifically what things they did right, and what things could be improved. "I enjoyed the story" is not helpful feedback, but "The characters really sucked me in, and I enjoyed seeing what happened to them" is. Similarly, "the story was boring" is not helpful, but "the story has some issues with pacing; this part and that part drag on longer than they should" tells the writer what specifically they need to improve.
For rule number five, I would remove the request for people not to review genres they don't like, and simply request that they acknowledge this when giving feedback. People who don't normally read a particular genre can still have a valuable perspective. Besides that, trying out a new genre could wind up making the reviewer more interested in reading other works in the genre.
For rule number six, I agree that the group should primarily be focused on original content for future J-Novel contests. However, I would like to see an exception carved out for certain situations. Let's say you're considering entering the contest, but you want to improve as a writer before you start working on your entry. Asking for feedback on a previous work of yours, even if it doesn't meet the contest criteria, should be allowed. Also, if someone is writing say a short story as a practice exercise before starting their competition entry, that should also be allowed. Basically, the purpose of the group is to help writers improve for future J-Novel contests, so content exceptions can be made as long as it furthers that goal.
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Hi there. I’m sorry you wound up in hospital again. Take care of yourself.
Thanks for reading through and taking the time to respond. It was greatly appreciated.
For rules 1 and 4 - Sounds good although I am wondering whether we need a separate piece on putting together constructive feedback. What I was trying to avoid making the hurdle too high so that people still feel empowered to comment.
Your feedback on rule number 6 makes sense - happy to consider works like short stories etc that may not qualify for future rounds of the competition.
We don’t want to become another writing group but can consider other works. I know some people have written short stories in the worlds of their novels for example.
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@Damon-Cavalchini Thank you again ^^
I was thinking people might be uncertain what to say when giving feedback, so it would be easier if we gave some concrete direction. We could definitely move it elsewhere and link to it with something like "if you aren't sure what kind of feedback writers are looking for, here are some examples." Oh, and it just occurred to me that you should suggest that writers can request specific things they would like feedback on. These can be included at the beginning or end of the work being submitted for review.
We of course want to remain focused on original light novels, but I think being as flexible and welcoming as possible is important, especially since we're just starting out. We definitely don't want people who are interested to sit on the sidelines because they feel hesitant, confused, or excluded.
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Only a few weeks away till the announcement of first round. How are we all feeling?
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@LeeroyCGNA pretty much resigned to not getting through to the second round because I'm getting less and less confident that what I wrote could really be described as a light novel.
I'm still confident it's a good story, though, even more so after one of my beta readers told the members of a book group she belongs to about it and they want to read it too (I've told them no while it's still in contention here), but is it the sort of thing JNC is looking for?
Anyway, as you say, it's only a few weeks now.
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@LeeroyCGNA I have done my best not to look at the work I submitted, because I am sure I would find errors that would get me upset. But then a friend got sick and she asked me to read it to her—which I was happy to do. Of course I immediately found an error that mangled a sentence and now i worry that I may have accidentally sent an older draft of story. So yeah, that’s how I am feeling right now. (I have made a little progress on my second volume, though—it’s slow, but progress).
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I’m a bit similar. Kind of resigned to missing out this time but with a much understanding of what I want to do for next time.
I haven’t gone back to re-read except to do some reference checks for another book set in the same world which would make up a submission for next time.
Oh - and I’ve been playing around with an idea for an Isekai because market forces rule and I actually think there’s a good(ish) tweak in there.
Luckily work has been insane the past couple months f weeks so I have managed to not obsess entirely about the results.
Whatever happens, I’m still glad I subbed and fully intend to sub again.
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Don't discount yourselves just yet, I'm damn sure that there's probably not many "finished" products that were submitted in the competition.
Fingers crossed that everyone here makes it through the first round at least. Best of luck all!
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Thanks. And best of luck to you too.
And everyone else on here.
It is funny. While I desperately want to get into the second round, I won’t be disappointed if I don’t. I’m just happy to be writing again.
The completed work was an interesting one. My second novel was 83,000 words because of the need to give it a clean ending.
Normally I would have split it in two but that left too many up in the air to be resolved in the sequel. It does have an “ending” point at the halfway mark but there’s more to come.
I almost did the part one and part two thing in the novel to show the break but changed my mind and let it flow as a single work.
