JNC Group Writing Review Thread —The Two Minds of Cassandra
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I've read up to chapter 5, but it'll take me a while to type up all my thoughts. For now, here's my feedback on Chapter 1 & 2.
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@Alfaerin said in JNC Group Writing Review Thread —The Two Minds of Cassandra:
I've read up to chapter 5, but it'll take me a while to type up all my thoughts. For now, here's my feedback on Chapter 1 & 2.
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@jazzyjeoff said in JNC Group Writing Review Thread —The Two Minds of Cassandra:
Well, I did do a little cutting as the result of the feedback—I am guessing that at least half of it, you would approve of—it was some pretty dark stuff.
Oh, so the version I read was revised compared to the original? I thought the level of detail was good in the version I read, so maybe I do agree with Hylebos after all. But if you want to send the original my way, I'll let you know what I think about it.
The point of the kiss was to show that the villainess, who believes herself to be evil, is in the presence of a far greater evil. He is the story’s main villain. <snip for brevity>
If you want to keep the kiss, I would try to convey at least some of what you just told me here in that scene. As long as you clearly convey that it's non-consensual and the reader is supposed to find it off-putting, you should be okay. What some women object to is when this kind of behavior is normalized, and the MC being too quick to forgive and/or move on when it happens.
Ha! I am impressed! You were so quick to figure that one out! Yes, The “Villainess Turns the Hourglass” was my inspiration—I despised that story! I mean you have this totally OP main character who has the mind of an adult and is out to torture and destroy a child —that’s so messed up! She can reverse time and not once does she go to her sister and say, “hey sis, you are going down the wrong path, let me guide you to a better end for the both of us!” So gross!
It is messed up, and Aria definitely did things that made me uncomfortable. Iirc though, a lot of what she did was giving Mielle the rope to hang herself. Anyone who reads them will inevitably compare the two, but the dual souls and the fact that your Mielle expy can actually be redeemed does a lot to distinguish the two.
Oh, the punch has to stay! Especially since “don’t ever say bad things about my mother” was so much better than the punch!
Hmm, okay then. I would like to suggest that adult Cassandra test the ring in some other way first, but you have the limitation of once per day working against you. Since you want to keep it, maybe throw in a mention somewhere indicating why she didn't try something less risky to test the ring. Or maybe how she planned to deal with the fallout if the ring didn't work.
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@Alfaerin said in JNC Group Writing Review Thread —The Two Minds of Cassandra:
Oh, so the version I read was revised compared to the original? I thought the level of detail was good in the version I read, so maybe I do agree with Hylebos after all. But if you want to send the original my way, I'll let you know what I think about it.
Yeah, if I recall correctly the original felt like it had at least a paragraph or so more than what the current google doc has.
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@Alfaerin Mielle? Who’s that? There’s a Michelle here, but no Mielles!😂
When the contest was announced, I didn’t even have an idea to start with—and my reaction to The Villainess Turns the Hourglass was so extreme—I just ran with it—I figured that if I accomplished nothing else—I would cleanse my palate of that revenge porn!
I am guessing that “My Life as a Villainess” probably started in a similar way. But unlike that, and my favorite, “Tearmoon Empire”, I want to play Casandra mostly straight—which is tough—avoiding silliness without becoming too dark or making my reader think that this is revenge porn—believable redemption is my goal—I hope by making one of the souls being a 10y/o a naive quest for redeeming her previous life tormentor will be more believable. I also hope that by making her 10 folks won’t be thinking about romantic love so much—there is only the love between friends—at least through the volumes that are currently residing in my head! -
J jazzyjeoff referenced this topic on
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I’m about midway through chapter 7 so far, and I am finding this story to be dark. To be fair, I have no clue whether this is meant to be a story that I would typically enjoy, so I’m not sure how much my reactions might help you, or how much you should read into my responses. But yeah, I’ve been working my way through the early chapters, and if I wasn’t already aware that the story will (eventually) become one of redemption and healing for the protagonist and the people around her, I’m not sure I’d have stuck with the story as long as I have. As it is, I reached that passage in Chapter 7 about how the staff had not only sabotaged Cassandra’s education, but her ability to socialize with peers (teaching her to draw the wrong kind of attention without her intent or understanding)… That, on top of everything that had come before, it was too much for me and I had to put the text down for a minute and take a break. Then I picked it up again and read about Dot’s circumstances during Cassandra’s first life, and I had to put it down again all over again.
I know I’m on the sensitive side, even when it comes to fictional stories. So to some extent, if you want to read my feedback above as “not only is Cassandra’s past awful, it’s believably awful”, since I’m reacting this hard to it: that’s not an unfair takeaway. I’m also not sure you actually need to change anything about your story in response to my comments, since I might not be the kind of reader this story is meant for. So whether or not you should actually consider softening anything is an open question, and I don’t think not doing so is an invalid choice.
But also… your new title, “revenge and redemption”. Yes, knowing that redemption is ahead for the story does help keep me willing to keep reading, to see it happen. Knowing that “revenge” presumably does also happen, and happens first, has me worried all over again. I’m worried that we haven’t actually seen the story at it’s darkest yet, and that whatever’s to come might be too dark for me to push through to get to the point where things are truly on an upward path. My point here being that even if you still want to highlight Cassandra’s ultimate redemption in your title to help keep readers like me around, maybe hinting at “revenge” undermines that goal a bit. I’m not quite sure I’d be as worried about things getting darker yet without that promise in the title.
In particular, the idea that the elder Cassandra might force or trick the younger Cassandra into place where she either commits or is witness to some truly heinous deeds is a very real concern to me. The bit at the end of Chapter 6, where the elder Cassandra briefly considers killing Michelle just prior to using the ring, sort of underscores that there is a very real chance things could take a turn in that direction. She didn’t this time, and she didn’t in part because she didn’t want to expose younger Cassandra to such a thing, which is a little heartening… but there’s very much implied “yet” to the whole thing. That’s a line she means to cross in time. Which is definitely good from a dramatic tension standpoint, but the end result is also that I’m left worrying about it, for better or worse.
It’s been hard enough when the elder puts down the younger as “weak”, or bullies her into a course of action, even if I have some empathy for where that might be coming from. (And again, kudos to you on keeping that believable, at least in the portions I’ve read so far.)
Of course, for all I know, this part in Chapter 7 might be the text at its darkest. But even if you know, hypothetically, that if I just hang in there for two more chapters, then it should be smooth sailing from that point forward… I as a reader don’t know that at this particular time.
(To be clear - I do intend to continue reading/reviewing your story. I’m just saying if I didn’t already have the additional perspective from what you have written in these forum posts, that would be much less likely. Even with that foreknowledge, I’m a little nervous about what might be waiting around the next corner.)
Anyway, more generally:
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Rereading some of the earlier posts in this thread, I think you’ve done well incorporating the prior feedback you’ve received so far. Not that I’ve read the earlier versions to compare it to, but for example: I found the priest’s kiss of Cassandra in the prison to be deeply creepy, but it was also clear that it was meant to be taken as creepy. So goal accomplished there. (FYI - my willingness to be “okay” with it and continue the story was predicated slightly on the assumption that his kissing her was a requirement for the magic he’d later use to reanimate her. Still an evil act, but one motivated by his overall evil goals. Then came his kissing the ring when they met up in the church in chapter 4, which kind of throws that into question. Is he doing creepy things because he’s a creep, or because he needs to in service to creepy magic? The distinction is small, but can be meaningful. You mention that there will be more magic as the story progresses; that might mean you have an opportunity to address this further one way or the other, if you wish to. Just a thought, anyway.)
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Also regarding Chapter 4, when he says “the Church can be very tolerant to those who know how to be discreet.” Is he making a reference to priests preying on children? Are you really sure you want to add that kind of characterization to this story? Maybe you have reasons for it, but if it’s some kind of throwaway line, you may want to consider rewriting it to remove the inference as taking your story just a step too far out of bounds. It’s not like you aren’t already dealing with some considerably uncomfortable subjects in your story already. And if was meant to be some kind of joke, it fell flat, because everything else in your story makes that too real of a possibility to be dismissed as a joke. (Actually, maybe it would be worth taking another look at this scene altogether, between my prior comment and this one. Totally up to you, but maybe give it some thought?)
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I like younger Cassandra as a character. I’m rooting for her and don’t want bad things to happen to her. (So very likely, goal accomplished there as well.) Just, FYI, if I had to point to what is most keeping me engaged and continuing on with your story so far, it’s to see what happens next for her, younger Cassandra, and how hopefully the elder’s presence will mean that the younger Cassandra will end up in a better place and with a better childhood than the elder had, rather than a worse one.
I hope something in the above is helpful to you. I also would understand entirely if it was not. And for all my concerns and hesitations, what you have so far does seem like a story worth reading that you should feel proud of (at least based on what I’ve read so far). I’m just less sure of whether it is a story for me or not. Which isn’t necessarily your problem. : )
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@Dawnaxis Thanks so much for reading! I know that I am really trying to thread the needle here. I want to keep my story and characters believable, while worrying that I might lose half my audience for being too dark and the other from being too fluffy —(yes, too fluffy—these are ten-year-old girls—and as they heal throughout the story they will take time to enjoy the world as ten-year-olds! ). Anyway, if you keep reading, please let me know the things you think might be too dark, or needlessly dark, and I will see what I can do.
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With regards to the kiss—it was intended to establish who the real villain in the book is—and by her recoiling in the presence of true evil—is to hint that Cassandra may not be quite the evil person that the world—or she—thinks she is.
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@jazzyjeoff That part came through clearly when I read it. That’s why I said you seemed to have accomplished your goal with that scene. What’s still less defined for me (at this moment, mid-chapter 7), is what his motives both were and are. And while his motives for any of his actions are currently a mystery to me, his motive for kissing Cassandra, there in that moment, is a contributing factor to just how creepy that kiss actually was, or how creepy some of his future behavior (e.g. Chapter 4) might come across as.
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Well, some of that is good. I have dropped hints—and I can spoil it if you want. But he is is obviously using her—he calls her “his little investment”—the question is “how is he profiting off of her actions?” and that is supposed to be a mystery—there will be more hints (and I have already dropped a few)—I just don't want it to be too obvious—I hope to keep the reader guessing through at least half way through the book. Ideally, I want the hints to substantial enough that when the reader gets to the reveal, they yell—that was so freaking obvious!” —and then throw their reading device accross the room smashing it into a thousand pieces!
Hmmmn—I feel like I forgot something…
Oh, yes…
Mwah-ha-ha! -
@Dawnaxis I might take out the bit about the “the church being tolerant” thing—but I think I will wait and see what the rest of the story looks like—I have removed my original ending and have decided to add many more chapters. But it does serve a purpose—the Reverend Mother is (possibly) the nicest adult in the book—and while it is okay for the reader feel a bit of respite from stress when Cassandra is with her—I don't necessarily want the reader to feel safe when Cassandra is in church.
While the evil priest is not really isn't in that many scenes, he is supposed to be menacing when he is there. Not knowing what his boundaries are adds to that. (It's funny that something like Bookworm doesn't just hint at pedophile priests—but doesn't come off nearly as dark. That’s not an argument, just an observation. Just thinking about how to achieve that balance in the reader).
