Shakugan no Shana

roughroadface51

I realize there's less urban fantasy these days like this one or Index or i just dont know anything. If you check MAL stat for the "plan to read" its about 3k account. As someone who got interested to this series decades ago, I'm still hoping this one will given a chance. Older fans still rooting for older series to get in English. Man, i don't even know if we're living in the 21st century. One up for this one.

myskaros

@roughroadface51 said in Shakugan no Shana:

Older fans still rooting for older series to get in English.

The issue is that fans like to say this, but they don't actually buy these series when it does get licensed and translated. JNC and other publishers have licensed various older series with older, seemingly popular anime, and they rarely perform up to expectations.

Asthma_Queen

Would be interested in seeing this translated loved the anime

c933103

@myskaros I think more recent ones like in 2000s-early 2010s might perform better than older series, because both the audience are still relatively similar in term of their age, and also because the continued growth of anime-related market in English world mean shows that are closer to now would have more people watched it than series that are more classic but older.

DoubleMangekyo

@c933103 said in Shakugan no Shana:

I think more recent ones like in 2000s-early 2010s might perform better

growth of anime-related market in English world mean shows that are closer to now would have more people watched it than series that are more classic but older.

Sorry to break it to you, but even 5 years ago is too old for many buyers.

Here's a bunch of JNC series from your timeframe that are not profitable:
Demon King Daimaou (anime 2010)
Infinite Stratos (anime 2011)
Kokoro Connect (anime 2012)
Outbreak Company (anime 2013)
Invaders of the Rokujouma!? (anime 2014)
Amagi Brilliant Park (anime 2014)
When Supernatural Battles Became Commonplace (anime 2014)
Wild Times With a Fake Fake Princess (no anime)

Full Metal Panic! only sells enough because of the hardcovers.

Another example of poor sales would be A Certain Magical Index (Yen Press). I get the feeling Yen might be the ones to eventually license Shana because they're doing other long Kadokawa series from the 2000s (DxD, DAL, Baccano, DRRR, S&W). I don't see any other publisher getting it tbh.

c933103

@DoubleMangekyo
Eh first 2010-2014 is about 9-13 years ago already

And as an anime isn't Infinite Stratos the only one in the list that maintain popularity beyond the season they air? Rokujouma maybe? And IS suffered from author relationship with publisher and illustrator.

GeorgeMTO

@c933103 said in Shakugan no Shana:

Eh first 2010-2014 is about 9-13 years ago already

They are now, but most of them were much closer to 5 years ago when the series were first licensed by JNC.

xdrfiredogx

@DoubleMangekyo Hmm... Do you have any data to back up the assertion that those specific titles have lost them money? Some of them make sense, but others maybe less so.

Though unfortunately, as much as I'd love for older series like SnS to get licensed, I do agree that the odds are much worse for them to be profitable. Not just because they may be less familiar to would-be readers but also because the style tends to feel very different than what modern readers might be use to. Slayers is a great example... reading it, there is a style to it that doesn't feel anything like anything more modern.

GeorgeMTO

@xdrfiredogx said in Shakugan no Shana:

Hmm... Do you have any data to back up the assertion that those specific titles have lost them money? Some of them make sense, but others maybe less so.

Minor note: poor sales, not losses. Some of them may have broke even, or been minorly positive, but not been the sales boom that people were saying they should be given the popularity of the anime or how well it sells in Japan etc. Most of those titles I've seen mentioned by staff as poor sellers in various places.

DoubleMangekyo

@xdrfiredogx said in Shakugan no Shana:

Do you have any data to back up the assertion that those specific titles have lost them money? Some of them make sense, but others maybe less so.

My data is whatever Sam and other JNC staff have said on the discord server over the years. The consensus is that series with old anime (read: more than 5 years ago) don't sell.

Here's Sam saying Orphen, Outbreak and Daimaou are losing money. I'd like to show you more, but that's the only one I've got saved. You could join the discord and search through it if you want, since I can't be bothered.

Though unfortunately, as much as I'd love for older series like SnS to get licensed, I do agree that the odds are much worse for them to be profitable. Not just because they may be less familiar to would-be readers but also because the style tends to feel very different than what modern readers might be use to.

Yeah, the current fad is isekai. Anything that's not that will face an uphill battle.

From what I've gathered, late 90s->late 00s were defined by urban fantasy series (Boogiepop, Shana, Index, Haruhi, etc.); the late 00s->early 10s were magic battle high school (Daimaou, IS, etc.); trapped in a game world stories (SAO, Log Horizon) had a brief stint before isekai fully took over in 2014. Some people say the next big thing will be rom-coms, but I'll believe that when I see it.

Slayers is a great example... reading it, there is a style to it that doesn't feel anything like anything more modern.

Slayers at least seems to have enough name recognition for the hardcovers to do well. (I'm assuming, since JNC is even giving it the audio book treatment now)

Rahul Balaggan

Hello,

The comment above was a good comment to wrap up this side discussion. At least in this topic. If anyone wishes they are free to open up a new topic to discuss various speculation points on old anime in relation to sales.

Otherwise let’s bring this topic back around to Shakugan no Shana.

Thank you

khanman

Like so many others, I would love to see Shana get picked up by JNC since it's my favorite anime series.

Maybe JNC could do a kickstarter-like drive to gauge interest in the series. I know it's kind of a weird comparison to make, but Hasbro did just that when they considering revamping an old board game from the early 90s called HeroQuest. It ended up being a huge success, and they more than cleared their goal.

I think Shana has enough of a cult following that it would actually do really well with that. Wouldn't actually cost anything unless it was successful in raising the necessary amount and JNC getting the license from Dengeki Bunko.

DoubleMangekyo

@khanman Kickstarter wouldn't be a good idea.
To quote a response by JNC staff from What can us fans do to to expediate the liscening process?:

Companies don't like being told "we don't trust that your series will be successful so we want to prove it will sell first." They also don't like being told "we thought it would be popular but not enough people funded, sorry."

I've lost all hope of JNC ever getting Shana. The reason? In a recent licensing stream it was made clear that JNC will not be printing any more of their licenses (barring spin-offs), and people should be asking Yen Press instead. You can thank Kadokawa for this.

Old series like Shana (FMP, Slayers) tend to do well physically, but have horrible digital sales. And even the decent physical sales are dependent on a title having enough name recognition to bring in the old fans. Crest of the Stars, for example, does not have good physical sales.

Basically, JNC has no financial incentive to license Shana since Kadokawa wouldn't allow them to print it anyway, and the digital sales would be subpar.

EDIT: Sam said it himself back in January:

Classic series like full metal/slayers sell terribly, 100% of the time. Only print editions sell for those. Later volumes of classic series can sell <100 copies each digitally. So our ability to license classic series is tied to our ability to put out print editions (otherwise we're looking at 5-figure losses for longer series.)

Ironman628

@DoubleMangekyo That’s such a major disappointment to hear that they’re not doing any future print offerings of new/future series, except in that very limited case. I always preferred physical copies, between Amazon being stupid and computers & tablets crashing, etc. I would’ve loved to see this series or Cat Planet Cuties picked up. Maybe their stance on print will change and it’ll happen one day….

xdrfiredogx

@DoubleMangekyo said in Shakugan no Shana:

I've lost all hope of JNC ever getting Shana. The reason? In a recent licensing stream it was made clear that JNC will not be printing any more of their licenses (barring spin-offs), and people should be asking Yen Press instead. You can thank Kadokawa for this.

Well that is a damn shame. Don't ask me to explain why - because I couldn't - but I greatly prefer physical for some reason for some of the series like FMP and CotS/BotS and would have likely gone physical for this as well, even though I actually read far more digital than physical.

But yeah, based on this, the odds seem to have gone from maybe 5% chance to no chance 😔

c933103

@DoubleMangekyo but then the problem is - What about Yen Press? Do JNC communicate with Yen Press in any meaningful way on matters like this?

GeorgeMTO

@c933103 I don't think Yen Press would need JNC to tell them that a Classic series would need a physical print in order to sell well, they have their own older series licensed, and they could look at their own physical vs digital sales to verify that.

Cid

I highly doubt this series would sell any worse than Earl and Fairy.

Kevin55

Great novels to read. 2023 and we don't have this novels licensed, only VIZ first 2 light novels. Shakugan no Shana has a great fanbase, who knows if this novel can sell well or not... Maybe yes, nice anime, nice manga and nice novel.

In 2023 the volume 27 is out in Japan also. Praying for the license.