How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry
-
@N0tl0c Oddly enough, Valve found that the opposite is true: piracy doesn’t drive sales so much as it defers them. They solved a good portion of their piracy losses in Russia some years back by just doing global release dates instead of releasing in one market at a time across the globe. People wanted the games that were totally out but not available legally in their area, so they turned to illegal means. Valve made games available in all markets, and the people who wanted the games just bought them. This does support the idea that fan translations may not be as harmful as some fear, given that (as far as I recall) Valve never credited the policy with increasing sales as opposed to just decreasing piracy. So most of their “underserved customers” who turned to piracy were apparently getting the official release eventually. At the same time, though, if license holders and localization companies don’t embrace that idea in their marketing decisions, the end result is the same as if it directly hurts marketability.
-
@petitmelon I read the first eight or nine Haruhi Suzumiya novels in fan translation, because they weren't available in English at the time. There were multiple volumes that... well... weren't exactly well-translated; it's the main reason why I didn't get around to reading Volume 10 when the fan translation came out (not that I didn't try; I just didn't succeed). I've begun purchasing the actual volumes out of a desire to read the series again and remembrance of some of the holes in my reading due to poor translation, and it's so much easier to read them.
Heck, the varying quality of fan translations is one of the biggest reasons I don't look for fan translations of the original light novels of anime I enjoy — and so if I can't find an official, I just don't read the original. It's made my watchings of 8th Son and Bofuri feel "all right", but I enjoy both foreknowledge (it's why I picked up Bookworm around the time episode 8 came out) and I enjoy seeing the differences in the various adaptions (which is why if there's a manga of a series I really like I'll pick that up too, and hence why I've got the next volumes of Bookworm and Bakarina preordered in both LN and manga), so they're a lot less satisfying than they potentially could have been (or maybe infuriating? I don't know, not knowing what they may have cut makes it harder for me to enjoy it).
-
@EmpactWB said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
@N0tl0c Oddly enough, Valve found that the opposite is true: piracy doesn’t drive sales so much as it defers them. They solved a good portion of their piracy losses in Russia some years back by just doing global release dates instead of releasing in one market at a time across the globe. People wanted the games that were totally out but not available legally in their area, so they turned to illegal means. Valve made games available in all markets, and the people who wanted the games just bought them. This does support the idea that fan translations may not be as harmful as some fear, given that (as far as I recall) Valve never credited the policy with increasing sales as opposed to just decreasing piracy. So most of their “underserved customers” who turned to piracy were apparently getting the official release eventually. At the same time, though, if license holders and localization companies don’t embrace that idea in their marketing decisions, the end result is the same as if it directly hurts marketability.
Pretty much want happened to fan subbing as well.
Companies embraced simultaneous release. -
@petitmelon LOL. I find that the grammar in the official translations often annoys me (e.g. mixing up amount and number or less and fewer). The grammar and vocabulary in most fan translations is absolutely atrocious in comparison. There are times where you just put up with it, because it's the only way to read the story short of learning Japanese, but there are definitely series that I would have blown through if they were in good English but where I had to just put them away for a while, because the translation was too painful to read. It's part of why I'm interested in getting official translations even for series that have been completed by fan translators.
I'm grateful to fan translators when their work is the only way that I'm able to read a series, but it would be so much better if the translations were official with a proper editor. The result is just all around better, and there are no pesky legal or moral issues involved. :)
And yeah, that habit in LN writing of not saying who is saying what until after several people have spoken is incredibly annoying.
-
I would say theres a sweet spot where a volume or two fantranslated could get people wanting more and really help but going past there tends to hurt the industry in terms of people not having a good reason to buy a merely decent series they've already read.
There are series I kinda want but can't justify buying yet after reading many of the volumes but a new series that I've heard good things about can be easily bought. On the other hand there are series like Konosuba and Overlord which I own all of but have only read the fantranslations.
I've gave up on fantranslations myself due to the pain of finding translations that can't put things into english decently. -
@Sashas It really depends. I for my part still buy the series I like (e.g. Overlord like you as a physical copy and even digital, Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear, etc) If I enjoy a series I am still buying them although I have progressed widely with the fan translations. But this is my standpoint. Although.... this could also be my collector genes speaking (looking at the 2 japanese volumes of 'Another', the english one, the 'Another Episode S/0' and the german deluxe edition including Zero)
As I already posted here I will hold my comment brief. Without fantranslations I would have never bought this much books or different series. It did enable me to find many gems.
-
@Zing said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
The problem is that scans are keeping up with the Japanese release. Where official translation is just so far behind, I can hardly see them as being relevant.
I dont wish to wait 6-8 month between buying a volume of manga I like, this is very unappealing to me and it leads me to believe that I am not its target consumer. The official release might be targeting a different market segment then the one I am present in.Simulcasting anime has been the most effective tool against anime piracy. That being said, light novels require a lot more effort to translate than episodes of anime, and one of the reasons fangroups can translate so quickly is their willingness to sacrifice quality at the altar of speed.
-
I have no problem with fan translations they made me discover so many titles that ended supporting by buying the official volumes (like overlord).
My issue is with websites that hold pirated versions of published lightnovels. The people who invest in the industry have the right for a fair return and be able to have confortable living.
Fans that feel entitled for free (pirated) novels triggers me way more than any fan translators which in his/her are also contributing to the industry growth.
I wouldn't be a light novel reader if not for fan translators, as I started only reading light novels with the fan translation of SOA and NGNL. Many more potential customers will be introduced to light novels by fan translators in the future. They are an important cog in the wheel, I still research new lightnovels by checking out fan translations when available. I even donated to them to appreciate their fast releases of my favorite novels.
-
If fan translation is such a problem why not directly sign a deal with up and coming Japanese author on syosetu? Just like the regular Japanese publisher do.
Then you can outsource the print edition to a Japanese company and have a simultaneous book release in the west and the east. -
@Zing Simultaneous would give problems. JNC is fast but any japanese publisher would try to bring the original work out as fast as possible. They would not wait for an english translation.
-
Would dealing directly with an author to become the publisher while releasing the English version and then license it to a Japanese Publisher work or would the English version take to many sales to make a Japanese publisher interested?
I mean would the cost of dealing with the author directly be greater than the licensing cost? and if not then would finding promising wn and then stepping in like the Japanese publishers do be viable?
I read fan translations of some ln normally those that continue dropped anime a surprising amount which don’t have official translations and while I try supporting official translations not every company is as fast or diligent as j-novel. There are some series that at 20+ volumes given the glacier like release speed I could be dead before the official releases catch up with the fan releases nevermind the Japanese releases.
-
@renofury said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
I have no problem with fan translations they made me discover so many titles that ended supporting by buying the official volumes (like overlord).
My issue is with websites that hold pirated versions of published lightnovels. The people who invest in the industry have the right for a fair return and be able to have confortable living.
Fans that feel entitled for free (pirated) novels triggers me way more than any fan translators which in his/her are also contributing to the industry growth.
I wouldn't be a light novel reader if not for fan translators, as I started only reading light novels with the fan translation of SOA and NGNL. Many more potential customers will be introduced to light novels by fan translators in the future. They are an important cog in the wheel, I still research new lightnovels by checking out fan translations when available. I even donated to them to appreciate their fast releases of my favorite novels.
agreed there are 'fan translations' and there are 'fan translations'
-
promoting (translation) a work because you are a fan, gets a thumbs up from me
-
promoting (translation) a work for profit, continuing when asked by license holder to stop, hosting fan translations behind a paywall, hosting pirated work (i.e. licensed translations) --all earn my ire.
and the difference between the 2 groups is a moving line. what was ok 10 or 5 or 1 year ago may not be ok now - some of my own comments earlier in this thread (when I re-read them) feel out of date
-
-
@Seandrake Problem is to get a direct contact with an author. Usually those are tied to a publisher and even though the oversea market is big, a japanese author would certainly earn more in their own country. So either the writer is tied with contracts to a japanese publisher or in the case of a newcomer/not so well known author would be wary with contracting outside of Japan. Besides international contract laws are bothersome. And I speak out of personal knowledge. Especially for am author as in the case of a lawsuit he would normally bring this case to the court in the land of the publisher.
Oh yeah an addition why I assume massive problems with a simultaneous release of a novel in Japanese/English (regarding my posting beforehand). Most japanese publisher would not favor such contracts as it could cut into their profits. Even with import taxes could an overseas version be cheaper than the local variant. So they would fear that their own audience would simply import those books.
-
I think there is legitimate room for not-for-profit fan translations of light novels. They can provide a means to build interest in a series as well as provide a base indicator of potential. It can also provide an outlet for novels that are less likely to be picked up by EN publishers in the short to medium term. All you have to do is look at High School DxD. the fan translations of the first series (25 volumes) was completed 13 months before the license was announced by YP. Then there's Saijaku Muhai no Bahamut which is also completely fan TL'd and, as far as i'm aware, has never even had believable rumors about it being officially licensed.
The things that curtailed anime piracy obviously wont work for novels and manga but i think if publishers really thought open-mindedly and put their collective intelligence together, they could probably find a way to fit fan translations into the LN ecosystem without harming their own interests. Of course, that would probably require a seismic shift in thinking, especially from japanese publishers, but where there's a will there's eventually a way.
That said, i agree that fan translations should be at the earliest reasonable opportunity upon publication (perhaps in some sort of staggered buffer system if the fan translation can easily outpace the official TL or is already far far ahead when the series is licensed.) be removed to limit any 'competition' to the official translation
On the subject of fan translation quality, i dont think it's uniformly
-
So i posted about Genius Prince a few weeks ago and well the person is still doing his fan translation , i messaged yen press about it.
Was thinking about joining the guys patroen with the cheapest option and messaging him about the fact that the light novel is licensed
-
@whyohwhy1
Odds are the fan translator knows about it, and is just doing it anyway. It's not worth give it to them any money to tell them what they most likely already know. If anything, should report their patreon as they are publishing licenced work. -
Well, personally, they just make me want to buy the books since I prefer paperbacks or a more readable ebook format so I can bookmark where I am while reading it. Random text on webpage is inconvenient for hours of reading when I don't have the hours to just sit and read.
-
@Jon-Mitchell said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
@renofury said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
I have no problem with fan translations they made me discover so many titles that ended supporting by buying the official volumes (like overlord).
My issue is with websites that hold pirated versions of published lightnovels. The people who invest in the industry have the right for a fair return and be able to have confortable living.
Fans that feel entitled for free (pirated) novels triggers me way more than any fan translators which in his/her are also contributing to the industry growth.
I wouldn't be a light novel reader if not for fan translators, as I started only reading light novels with the fan translation of SOA and NGNL. Many more potential customers will be introduced to light novels by fan translators in the future. They are an important cog in the wheel, I still research new lightnovels by checking out fan translations when available. I even donated to them to appreciate their fast releases of my favorite novels.
agreed there are 'fan translations' and there are 'fan translations'
-
promoting (translation) a work because you are a fan, gets a thumbs up from me
-
promoting (translation) a work for profit, continuing when asked by license holder to stop, hosting fan translations behind a paywall, hosting pirated work (i.e. licensed translations) --all earn my ire.
and the difference between the 2 groups is a moving line. what was ok 10 or 5 or 1 year ago may not be ok now - some of my own comments earlier in this thread (when I re-read them) feel out of date
I have to agree the 2nd hurts the industry. I've seen a number of series I've read catch up to licensed english release against the fan translation (scanlation) and the group continued doing it.
Dome X Kano, I think Shield Hero is past scanlation, and I've literally seen groups post LICENSED work on a certain ex aggregator (MR). I sent in a report to the site and they just sent back a form letter saying they where working on licensing it... yea ok...
-
-
kissanime and kiss manga are gone. will this help or hurt.
As i started watching anime then checked out manga and then search the light novels and now own about 10+ full anime series and about 200 light novels
-
@whyohwhy1 said in How much do you think fan translations hurt the industry:
kissanime and kiss manga are gone. will this help or hurt.
They are(were) not the only aggregators out there. That they disappeared only means others gained popularity. They were at the worst end of it though(ad-infested, scans of licensed manga, don't respect the fan translators, don't respect takedown notices etc).
But this is aggregators who often don't separate between licensed works and fan translations in what they put up(there are some who hold good practices though), so I'm not sure the question is of much relevance here.
