How to Build a Harem
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@thomask I have heard of the untouched bs concerning idole fan but I'm not sure it's as much of a problem in LN.
Some LN fans likely do want the girls to be pure virgin and all that bs when they are introduced, but I thinks most wouldn't care if the MC has his way with them, especially since most of the series aims at that demographic have self-insert MC.Do you like death, war and misery ?
Do you like badass op loli who let nobody got in their way ?
Do you like vengeance story?
If so then then vote for The girl who ate a death god -
@raitoiro said in How to Build a Harem:
especially since most of the series aims at that demographic have self-insert MC.
I'm not sure where the line is, but at some point in the past LN's had rating systems (for age) and if an author/publisher wanted to sell the the perceived target demographic, (11-16 year old boys) they had to keep the naughty stuff out, or risk the book not being on display in the section of the store where it was likely to sell best. (I'm going back in time here, think 1980's-90's)
More recently, I believe the rating system is somewhat different and stories can be somewhat more mature /realistic (relationship wise) and not risk 18+ tags (some of this was self censorship by publishers, I don't know why heroes had to be chaste, and holding hands was such a big deal, but at least with Anime, the realities of teenager/high schooler sex are addressed more frankly in recent years - 2 examples that come to mind (that have nothing to do with each other, other than accepting that sex among teenagers is a 'given' : Domestic Girlfriend and School Days) Ironically it seems that self play/ 'using' pornography is more frankly accepted in a wider number of titles (It seems a common trope that a boy must hide his 'treasures' before someone comes to visit)
Thematic Inertia is a thing (I guess) and I still see/read many titles where everyone is chaste, holding hands (or a kiss) is a really big deal (maybe I'm missing cultural allusions/metaphors for something else, because nudity and fondling apparently doesn't count as sexual activity?!)
regardless - sorry for meandering, my point is that in my opinion, I don't believe that sexual relations is necessary for a harem to be 'real'. If the protagonist dates, is 'more than friends', or is intimate (hello Mixed Bathing) with multiple characters that would potentially be 'partners' in a relationship way. What makes it a harem is the being more than a couple (2) and doing things that couples would do
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@jon-mitchell said in How to Build a Harem:
What makes it a harem is the being more than a couple (2) and doing things that couples would do
I think that makes a good working definition.
I understand executive order is why Isse in DxD keeps getting shut down.
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@Jon-Mitchell I agree with @steelblaidd about your definition, but would take the number to greater than 3. I just can't see a "harem" with only 3 people. I would just call that a love triangle.
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I think you need to add another rule: that the “spokes” are okay with the MC being involved with the others in the harem. That would make it distinct from a true love triangle (where both of the others want the MC to themselves).
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@hamsterexastris
I disagree, plenty of situations in LN/anime/manga where the spokes either are unaware of each other’s interest or in competition -
@jon-mitchell Then that’s not a harem yet, I don’t feel.
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@hamsterexastris Not a stable end stage one no but as an initial stage i think it counts.
I agree that a harem needs at least 4 principles.
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@hamsterexastris said in How to Build a Harem:
@jon-mitchell Then that’s not a harem yet, I don’t feel.
Are you suggesting that the use of the harem label is improperly... or maybe too widely, applied to today's LN/anime/manga?
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Let’s take for example Serei Gensouki (as of today’s progress JNC prepub progress, no spoilers) Miharu knows almost nothing about Cecelia, and absolutely nothing about Flora yet everyone (I think) would agree that this series gets a harem tag, and those 3 girls are part of Rio’s harem. Yes, the “marry them all/ harem ending” is a thing, but many many LN/anime/manga dive into harem tropes w/o that ending. Battle harems, rivalries, unwittingly acquiring harem, first girl wins, last girl wins etc. There are lots of scenarios that have “harem” in common but not a stable “harem ending”
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@hamsterexastris I also disagree. The spokes being aware of the others is necessary. The spokes being ok with it or not differentiates between a cooperative harem and a battle harem.
Cooperative: Rokujouma, Realist Hero, Smartphone
Battle: Little Apocalypse, Infinite Stratos
Not really a harem: Spirit Chronicles, Greatest Magicmaster -
@paul-nebeling said in How to Build a Harem:
Not really a harem: Spirit Chronicles, Greatest Magicmaster
...yet
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@paul-nebeling said in How to Build a Harem:
Battle: Little Apocalypse, Infinite Stratos
I think we may be talking past each other here (at least in the way I thought I was using the term)
of course this is all subject to opinion on how you define your terms - but to me a "battle harem" is a subtrope of the harem genre where the girls are fighters/team with the protagonist in a action oriented way - shield maidens and snipers and whatnot- think High School DxD (rivalries yes, but on same team in tournaments )IS still qualifies - but so does Rokojouma! Battle harems may or may not be cooperative!
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@jon-mitchell I believe we are using the term differently. I use battle harem to refer to one where the spokes are (generally) competing with each other for the central person's affection/attention rather than one where they are just fighting. I honestly can't think of many LN where there isn't some sort of fighting going on. I won't claim to be using the term properly, but to me, the modified regrets to the internal dynamic rather than the external activity.
Edit to add: I followed the link in your post and immediately cringed because I'm one of those Philistines that does not consider SAO to be a harem.
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@paul-nebeling SAO is a wannabe harem. Lots of people wannabe in what isn't there. Kind of like Businessman Isekai.
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should we coin a new term? I'm ok with that
what do we call a non-romantic harem? (i.e. Businessman Isekai- where the attraction seems to be - everyone wants the protagonist to be their boss and/or dad, but not necessarily have a romantic interest)I read banned books
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@jon-mitchell TVTropes has the Supporting Harem, which also includes cases where one girl is clearly the winning girl but other girls are in love with the guy. The basic idea is that the other girls exist more to appeal to the audience with their various character traits.
MAL
Beneath the Tangles (the blog I write for) -
@stardf29
I don’t think it fits forBusinessman I mean there may have been a fleeting crush, but the girls (other than his wife/goddess) weren’t in love with the protagonist -
@jon-mitchell The page does also allow for "other girls really like but aren't in love with the protagonist", so there's that...
If you really want a unique term, maybe Pseudo Harem? Though that could be confused for this...
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@paul-nebeling said in How to Build a Harem:
use battle harem to refer to one where the spokes are (generally) competing with each other for the central person's affection/attention rather than one where they are just fighting.
That is a pretty nonstandard usage.
I agree that SAO is a stillborn harem. Though Kaoahara did right a 'non-canon' marry them all sort-of-ending (I keep wanting to write a fan fic continuation of it but cant figure out how to not make it a total lemon).
Disagree that the harem knowing all the potential members is a necessity.@stardf29 I loike psedo harem, both the manga and as the term for a no romantic gathering around a central character.
