How to Build a Harem
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@jon-mitchell said in How to Build a Harem:
What makes it a harem is the being more than a couple (2) and doing things that couples would do
I think that makes a good working definition.
I understand executive order is why Isse in DxD keeps getting shut down.
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@Jon-Mitchell I agree with @steelblaidd about your definition, but would take the number to greater than 3. I just can't see a "harem" with only 3 people. I would just call that a love triangle.
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I think you need to add another rule: that the “spokes” are okay with the MC being involved with the others in the harem. That would make it distinct from a true love triangle (where both of the others want the MC to themselves).
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@hamsterexastris
I disagree, plenty of situations in LN/anime/manga where the spokes either are unaware of each other’s interest or in competition -
@jon-mitchell Then that’s not a harem yet, I don’t feel.
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@hamsterexastris Not a stable end stage one no but as an initial stage i think it counts.
I agree that a harem needs at least 4 principles.
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@hamsterexastris said in How to Build a Harem:
@jon-mitchell Then that’s not a harem yet, I don’t feel.
Are you suggesting that the use of the harem label is improperly... or maybe too widely, applied to today's LN/anime/manga?
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Let’s take for example Serei Gensouki (as of today’s progress JNC prepub progress, no spoilers) Miharu knows almost nothing about Cecelia, and absolutely nothing about Flora yet everyone (I think) would agree that this series gets a harem tag, and those 3 girls are part of Rio’s harem. Yes, the “marry them all/ harem ending” is a thing, but many many LN/anime/manga dive into harem tropes w/o that ending. Battle harems, rivalries, unwittingly acquiring harem, first girl wins, last girl wins etc. There are lots of scenarios that have “harem” in common but not a stable “harem ending”
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@hamsterexastris I also disagree. The spokes being aware of the others is necessary. The spokes being ok with it or not differentiates between a cooperative harem and a battle harem.
Cooperative: Rokujouma, Realist Hero, Smartphone
Battle: Little Apocalypse, Infinite Stratos
Not really a harem: Spirit Chronicles, Greatest Magicmaster -
@paul-nebeling said in How to Build a Harem:
Not really a harem: Spirit Chronicles, Greatest Magicmaster
...yet
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@paul-nebeling said in How to Build a Harem:
Battle: Little Apocalypse, Infinite Stratos
I think we may be talking past each other here (at least in the way I thought I was using the term)
of course this is all subject to opinion on how you define your terms - but to me a "battle harem" is a subtrope of the harem genre where the girls are fighters/team with the protagonist in a action oriented way - shield maidens and snipers and whatnot- think High School DxD (rivalries yes, but on same team in tournaments )IS still qualifies - but so does Rokojouma! Battle harems may or may not be cooperative!
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@jon-mitchell I believe we are using the term differently. I use battle harem to refer to one where the spokes are (generally) competing with each other for the central person's affection/attention rather than one where they are just fighting. I honestly can't think of many LN where there isn't some sort of fighting going on. I won't claim to be using the term properly, but to me, the modified regrets to the internal dynamic rather than the external activity.
Edit to add: I followed the link in your post and immediately cringed because I'm one of those Philistines that does not consider SAO to be a harem.
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@paul-nebeling SAO is a wannabe harem. Lots of people wannabe in what isn't there. Kind of like Businessman Isekai.
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should we coin a new term? I'm ok with that
what do we call a non-romantic harem? (i.e. Businessman Isekai- where the attraction seems to be - everyone wants the protagonist to be their boss and/or dad, but not necessarily have a romantic interest)I read banned books
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@jon-mitchell TVTropes has the Supporting Harem, which also includes cases where one girl is clearly the winning girl but other girls are in love with the guy. The basic idea is that the other girls exist more to appeal to the audience with their various character traits.
MAL
Beneath the Tangles (the blog I write for) -
@stardf29
I don’t think it fits forBusinessman I mean there may have been a fleeting crush, but the girls (other than his wife/goddess) weren’t in love with the protagonist -
@jon-mitchell The page does also allow for "other girls really like but aren't in love with the protagonist", so there's that...
If you really want a unique term, maybe Pseudo Harem? Though that could be confused for this...
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@paul-nebeling said in How to Build a Harem:
use battle harem to refer to one where the spokes are (generally) competing with each other for the central person's affection/attention rather than one where they are just fighting.
That is a pretty nonstandard usage.
I agree that SAO is a stillborn harem. Though Kaoahara did right a 'non-canon' marry them all sort-of-ending (I keep wanting to write a fan fic continuation of it but cant figure out how to not make it a total lemon).
Disagree that the harem knowing all the potential members is a necessity.@stardf29 I loike psedo harem, both the manga and as the term for a no romantic gathering around a central character.
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@steelblaidd "Stillborn harem" I like that. It truly fits. Yeah, Kawahara has written tons of add-on material for SAO. Some is canon and some is not. It muddies the waters quite a bit.
Since TVtropes has already assigned the term "Battle Harem", I suppose it's necessary to coin a phrase to describe what I mean. Competative Harem? I don't really like the flow of Non-cooperative Harem. Contested Harem? Fight-over-the-MC Harem? (That one kinda sucks.)
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antagonistic harem
harem of rivals
dog eat dog harem
