Different Payment Methods of Stripe
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@Jon-Mitchell said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
Am I missing something fundamental about credit cards in Europe? maybe my googling skills are rusty? A quick search shows that Mastercard/VISA prepaid credit cards can be obtained in Germany (physical or virtual) link1, There are costs w/ prepaid cards, but you don't need a credit check or a bank account. I also see lots of banks offering free/ zero fee cards in Germany (if you have an account with them) i.e. Barclays, Santander, Hanseatic Bank. There isn't any such thing as a 'free lunch'; either JNC has to make up the cost of taking PayPal (or whatever) by charging more (to everyone?) or consumers have to bear the cost of having a VISA/MC (either in costs/fees of obtaining a card, or having a bank account)
Of course they can be obtained, however, we are talking about a young demographic, most definitely between 16-30 years old. While the higher end of that range is much more likely to use credit cards as they are more grounded in life already those on the younger end arent. Everyone above 30 is much less likely to know english well enough to read english books (those that do are the well educated or countries that primarily use english as translation isnt widespread) or be interested enough to read far east light novels.
While some banks do provide free credit cards they also have horrendous fees for specific things that many just dont want to take as a young adult. I am talking about 15€ and more a month at least for just having a bank account with them. Investing 90€ into a one time payment might sound good but those cards naturally include fees too. Not something anyone would spend without a pressing need. There isnt a good reason to only support credit cards in the EU.As you said, my cost/benefit analysis is also not the best (i "only" study physics and informatics) but i could assume that the benefit definitely is larger.
@Shiny said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
https://home.bluesnap.com/snap-center/blog/multiple-payment-gateways/ sets out some of the downsides of having multiple payment providers. That doesn't mean JNC couldn't or shouldn't keep additional payment methods under review, but it helps to explain why they might not have gone down this route already (in addition to particular issues with any given provider which could be a barrier).
JNC get a lot of sales through third party sales so if someone can't get books through JNC they can still get the novels and JNC can still get paid.@Guspaz What he just said, i am not asking for multiple, i am asking to enable more of the options of Stripe.
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Not sure if it's relevant, but https://stripe.com/gb/payments/payment-methods-guide provides a summary of different types of payment supported by Stripe and their pros and cons
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@Shiny said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
Not sure if it's relevant, but https://stripe.com/gb/payments/payment-methods-guide provides a summary of different types of payment supported by Stripe and their pros and cons
Yep, i did take a look before making this topic. Gotta be informed, at least something i have taken away from being surrounded by difficulty study topics.
Anyway back on topic. For the current buisness model of subscription point 2.3 is relevant. Stripe recommends Cards, digital wallets and bank debits. Cards are covered in global customers aswell as the Google and Apple pay methods, for european customers they recommend SEPA and "SOFORT". The asian demographic is unnecessary, North america is credit card land and latin america is too small of a demographic to consider reasonably (economy isnt the best in most countries, reducing buying power).
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Just wanted to jump in and let everyone know we acknowledge this request and will look into it more carefully once the new website has launched.
Whoever said nothing's impossible never tried slamming a revolving door.
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@myskaros said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
Just wanted to jump in and let everyone know we acknowledge this request and will look into it more carefully once the new website has launched.
Thank you for acknowledgeing this request. I request to please keep the community informed on the outcome of your decision.
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@myskaros said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
Just wanted to jump in and let everyone know we acknowledge this request and will look into it more carefully once the new website has launched.
Good to hear. JNC for all!
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I did further calculations using some of the pricing as given by Stripes website:
https://stripe.com/gb/pricing#what-is-includedCredit cards and Debit cards: 1,4% fee +0,2$, means the amount after is 4,68$.
Non European credit cards and debit cards, 4,3% fee +0,4$ with a potential of 2% more taken for currency conversion upper bound: 4,34$.
Both of those methods already include apple and google pay, so there is no extra cut for using google or apple pay through stripe. Both methods are also already used by JNC if i understand this pricing model correctly.
SEPA: 1% fee +0,2$ -> 4,70$ (Better payput than other methods)
SOFORT: same as european CC and DC cards. 4,68$. (Same payout).Considering this newly won knowledge i can only see a reason to postpone adding more methods supported by stripe because of website integration work.Here are some more pricings:
https://stripe.com/gb/pricing/local-payment-methodssmall edit: Naturally this is with default plans, so depending on wether JNC is using other stuff aswell and/or has a custom plan it changes.Large edit: My calculations were a bit wrong, i didnt think about where JNC is located, so i used UK values instead of USA. @Jon-Mitchell below has made the correct calculations.
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Food for thought: if we assume that JNC gets 70% from Kindle sales, then 70% of 6.99 is $4.89.
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@Zehd And Sam has said that he gets the best royalties when you buy straight from JNC, so there has to be some math wrong here.
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@LegitPancake reverse mathing this, it seems to be taking a base value of $4.95, so they are referring to the subscription, not credits. Going by those fees, a regular 7$ credit would net $6.70 for JNC, and a premium credit would be a net $5.71 for JNC
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@derdotte-fgn34d9 said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
I did further calculations using some of the pricing as given by Stripes website:
https://stripe.com/gb/pricing#what-is-includedCredit cards and Debit cards: 1,4% fee +0,2$, means the amount after is 4,68$.
Non European credit cards and debit cards, 4,3% fee +0,4$ with a potential of 2% more taken for currency conversion upper bound: 4,34$.
Both of those methods already include apple and google pay, so there is no extra cut for using google or apple pay through stripe. Both methods are also already used by JNC if i understand this pricing model correctly.
SEPA: 1% fee +0,2$ -> 4,70$ (Better payput than other methods)
SOFORT: same as european CC and DC cards. 4,68$. (Same payout).Considering this newly won knowledge i can only see a reason to postpone adding more methods supported by stripe because of website integration work.
Here are some more pricings:
https://stripe.com/gb/pricing/local-payment-methodssmall edit: Naturally this is with default plans, so depending on wether JNC is using other stuff aswell and/or has a custom plan it changes.
quick match check: (all in U.S. Dollars)
- JNC is HQ in USA so I'm looking at the USA site vs the the UK site linked above, the 'base' rate is 2.9% + $0.30.
- so standard/monthly membership cost $4.95/ month nets JNC approx $4.51(not sure how they round)
- and a standard credit which costs $7.00 and nets JNC approx $6.49
- a typical ebook via amazon/kindle lists for $7.99 and nets JNC approx $5.59
(premium members pay more per month, but get 1 included credit per month and discount on purchased credits)
now these calculations are based on 'integrated' plan- not a custom /whatever plan JNC actually has . This is relevant because Stripe's base rate is EXACTLY the same as PayPal's base rate (cost to sellers)
so I can't imagine the approximately $.50 is the sticking point on taking PayPal...there must be other operational costs in working with them (maybe automation already in place for Stripe just doesn't work for PayPal? maybe doing accounting is a bigger hassle? ) who knows?
I read banned books
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@Jon-Mitchell ah yes, the page for the USA is different. I did not consider where their HQs are, thats my fault. Your calculations are the corrected values.
I believe the grouping of methods is similar though, so there are no extra costs involved by adding google pay and apple pay. While stuff like SEPA and SOFORT might be different.Edit: The correct page in question would be
https://stripe.com/pricing/local-payment-methods
It lists SEPA and SOFORT at 2,9% + $0,3. Exactly the same as card usage. Which also does include apple and google pay already. I will edit my post above to reflect that i missed out on considering where they are located. -
I'm hoping this all becomes moot once the new website is up. I get that obtaining a credit/debit card might not be convenient to all people in all places. Google/Apple pay (as a proxy for credit card vs. payments in the apple store/ google play store) should be nearly equivalent to overhead of taking a VISA/MC (purchases via the respective stores have a hefty commission charge)
now if folks till say: "only taking credit cards, apple pay, and google pay is a barrier to me buying a membership/credits" I don't know how to respond
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@Jon-Mitchell said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
I'm hoping this all becomes moot once the new website is up. I get that obtaining a credit/debit card might not be convenient to all people in all places. Google/Apple pay (as a proxy for credit card vs. payments in the apple store/ google play store) should be nearly equivalent to overhead of taking a VISA/MC (purchases via the respective stores have a hefty commission charge)
now if folks till say: "only taking credit cards, apple pay, and google pay is a barrier to me buying a membership/credits" I don't know how to respond
Google/Apple pay is much simpler to setup (only needs a bank account, that doesnt need to include a credit card). Earlier i already said, that a younger demographic isnt likely to use credit cards. Depending on country its even less likely as stuff like Google/Apple pay is widespread. The purpose of this topic is to raise awareness to JNC and others that you dont need paypal to have more methods available for customers and to consider which demographic one targets. Japanese light novels are targeted towards young adults. Eitherway, from what can be read by the integrated plan the extra costs are non existent for more methods. Therefore my equation from earlier is simply just new subscribers = old subscribers upon the change of plan. Leaving the only issue of integrating the payment methods into the upcoming website.
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@Jon-Mitchell said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
so I can't imagine the approximately $.50 is the sticking point on taking PayPal...there must be other operational costs in working with them (maybe automation already in place for Stripe just doesn't work for PayPal? maybe doing accounting is a bigger hassle? ) who knows?
You're looking at the domestic transfer cost for paypal I think. International cost I believe is 3.9% plus a fixed fee that depends on the originating currency. I don't know what JNC's breakdown of sales is for domestic US customers vs international customers, but it could result in a sizable difference. Stripe doesn't seem to indicate they have a different higher cost for non-domestic transactions.
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Now that the new website has been launched (It definitely looks much better), i want to remind the staff members of this topic and the mentioned consideration of @myskaros. Thank you.
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It is definitely on our list of things to investigate, but we cannot provide any ETA for when a change might come.
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I would have used SEPA Payments today and won't subscribe because I have no need for a credit card.
Payment Providers support multiple payment options for this exact use case, so please use them.
Please think about your EU customers.
Credit Cards are really rare among young germans for example.As a german my preferred Option would be giropay, but SEPA is not only for germans, but for all the EU... so SEPA seems better for you.
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@genkidama Thanks for the suggestion. We won't be enabling SEPA for a while, because it will require some significant changes to our backend. The reason being that, as Stripe (our payment processor) explains, the is a "delayed payment" processor, meaning that you can't instantly pay for things using it. This means that if we enabled it without changes to our systems, users could purchase coins, then cancel the payment (or the payment could bounce) and get free coins. So we need to implement delayed receipt of coins and subscription on our platform, which will take a while.
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@genkidama said in Different Payment Methods of Stripe:
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Credit Cards are really rare among young germans for example.Actually, it is not. I had a credit card from my 18th birthday onwards, and most banks give you one for free as long as you are a student or in training. And if you don't get one for free, it's mostly €10 a year. When I was at university, nearly every student had one. That applied to friends in job training and unemployed friends even though they have to plan with a tight budget.
Sure, below 18 you won't get one, but that's another story.
To be fair, I must say, many people in Germany just fear credit cards since they are not as safe as other payment options and that you don't have a need for a credit card inside the EU.
As a german my preferred Option would be giropay, but SEPA is not only for germans, but for all the EU... so SEPA seems better for you.
Wouldn't be PayPal be even better than that, as you can use this worldwide and more customers use that inside the EU instead of a credit card?
