Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.
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Personally, I'm only really concerned about preserving the original names when either a) they're appropriate to the culture portrayed in the work, or b) they're plot relevant.
For example, Bookworm - set in a fantasy setting with mostly German-derived invented names - having names westernised by the translator doesn't bother me at all; Nor does the stripping of Japanese honorifics from the same work. But if VTuber Legend - one of the few series I read actually set in Japan - had a main character going by Amanda instead of Awayuki, I'd probably object.
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@unknownmat I sort of agree with you, but personally, I think this is more of an issue with the author than the translation. I mean, imagine for a minute that the names were western, but they were Jay, Jack, and Jan. Would that actually be any better? I personally think it's just an issue that the names are so similar, not so much a cultural thing.
(Caveat, I am not really familiar with Korean culture and names, so no idea if these names are actually comparable or not, but I think my point comes across)
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I read webtoons, and when I found a series with names localized in English I tend to avoid it.... it's too immersion breaking reasing those Korean people doing Korean things but being called Steve, Jack, Elizabeth. So while I do agree than dealing with foreign names isn't always easy, to me the solution would be worse.
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@unknownmat said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
names that are too similar!
I don't have a problem with it. It's the same level of difficulty as having two or more people with the same name in your class, workplace etc. In fact, in fiction it's usually easier because the people with similar names may not have the same position/ relationship to the viewpoint character so the way they address the MC will change.
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@saidahgilbert said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
I don't have a problem with it. It's the same level of difficulty as having two or more people with the same name in your class, workplace etc. In fact, in fiction it's usually easier because the people with similar names may not have the same position/ relationship to the viewpoint character so the way they address the MC will change.
Hmm. It's fine if it doesn't bother you. But I feel like you're downplaying the problem. This is not the same level as having two kids name "Steve" in your class.
Have you read Solo Leveling? We're not talking one or two characters. I think it's a combination of the names looking similar in English and also originating from a Korean culture that I am unfamiliar with. I have an easier time with Japanese names, for example. But I find English names the easiest. Essentially, to remember an English name requires one piece of information. Whereas to remember a Korean name requires that I remember the shape of an unfamiliar word. And this is made much more challenging when several of the names are similar in appearance, particularly the way they begin and end. Now I have to pay attention to the actual spelling as I'm reading. This feels like an unnecessary amount of trouble for a story that is merely a fun fast read.
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@Lex said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
it's too immersion breaking reasing those Korean people doing Korean things but being called Steve, Jack, Elizabeth
I think the thing I struggle with most is that other forum participants seem to apply their naming preference uniformly without regard to the intent of the source material. Sailor Moon is not great cinema. I found it barely watchable even when I was teenager. An overly localized name like "Elizabeth" would hardly be the most egregious immersion breaker. By contrast, I took an "East Asian Literature" course during my undergrad where we studied several classic short-stories from a number of cultures. If the translator had localized the names as "Jeff" or "John" you better believe it would have raised some eyebrows.
In any case, maybe my suggestion of "Johnny Sung" was too much for most readers. But the translator could have chosen Korean-sounding names that are more visually/phonetically distinct.
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@unknownmat to me, the genre or target doesn't matter too much, I still prefer keeping the original names.
Using foreign names that sound more distinct can help in remembering and telling apart the characters but then introduces other forms of confusion when you talk or look for informations about the series because you can have multiple different localizations for each name, so I still don't see this solution as a net positive. -
@Lex said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
to me, the genre or target doesn't matter too much, I still prefer keeping the original names
Me to! Well.. except the really stupid names like, "Jiffy" Does Jiffy pop? I do like Jiffy pop. I like the way the aluminum swells up, gets hot and gets into your circulatory system and turns carcinogenic. 🫤
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@staylo67 said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
except the really stupid names like, "Jiffy"
Good point. A lot of names sound differently to a native audience. Translating a name literally can introduce unintended artifacts. So which is the "purest" choice? It's far from obvious.
I'm reminded of Princess Pina Colada from Gate. Or the knight Girlshout in Bookworm (thankfully quof went with Garlshaut for that one).
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@Lex said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
Using foreign names that sound more distinct can help in remembering and telling apart the characters but then introduces other forms of confusion when you talk or look for informations about the series
Agree. There are certainly reasons to prefer a more standardized rendering.
Note, though, that it can be ambiguous - two translators might reasonably disagree about the most accurate Romanizations for a particular name. Meaning there wouldn't be an obvious 1:1 correlation. To my thinking, this weakens the "ease of lookup" argument.
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@unknownmat said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
But the translator could have chosen Korean-sounding names that are more visually/phonetically distinct.
But that is not allowed. The translator can only write what's there. They can use a romanisation system that makes it better to read in English but they can't change the name unless the author does so themselves. The translator doesn't own the work, only the author (and/or the publisher) does. In fact, nowadays, languages that don't use the Latin alphabet can now insist on their own specific romanisation system so books from those languages can only be translated using that certain system.
In the case of Solo Leveling, it's the author that chose similar sounding names for their characters. A translator unfortunately can't do anything about that. It's no longer the case where names are translated into other languages- c.f. Christopher Columbus. Changing names would require extra steps in the translation process and that might be cost-prohibitive and/or time-consuming.
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@staylo67 said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
Me to! Well.. except the really stupid names like, "Jiffy" Does Jiffy pop? I do like Jiffy pop.
Sadly, we did not get to meet Jiify's Pop!
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@saidahgilbert Maybe some of those authors were trying to emulate Stan Lee, like his Peter Parker, Bruce Baner, Reed Richards, Susan Storm, Stephen Strange, Tony Stark, uh-oh, oh well, never mind misfired again! 😱🤪🤪😏
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@saidahgilbert said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
But that is not allowed... In the case of Solo Leveling, it's the author that chose similar sounding names for their characters. A translator unfortunately can't do anything about that.
Sorry, not allowed by whom? Is there some international body of linguists who police translation practices?
Regarding Solo Leveling, I may be pointing my finger at the wrong place. Obviously the translator is bound by the contract. As a reader, all I can say is that I disagree with the decision not to localize the names more. The resulting text is more annoying than I would have preferred.
EDIT: Actually, I misread your statement. You're not saying that the author chose the romanization. You're just saying that the author chose the orignal Korean name, correct? But the important point is whether a Korean reader of the original work would also find the names hard to distinguish. If so, then my beef is with the author. But if not, then this is an artifact of the translation that isn't present in the original work at all. I'm not sure how much leeway the translator might have per the contract, but there must be some. For example, I often see the anime and the LN translated differently. And there must be a clause in the contract for handling special cases such as when a word is accidentally an obscenity in the target language.
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@sorvani said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
Sadly, we did not get to meet Jiify's Pop!
I wonder why that is. I certainly hope it wasn't because Jiffy's pop, popped. 😱 🍿🍿🍿
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@unknownmat said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
not allowed by whom? Is there some international body of linguists who police translation practices?
Translation rights are typically restricted once granted. Publishers and authors retain this authority and can enforce it through contractual rights.
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@staylo67 said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
@unknownmat said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
not allowed by whom? Is there some international body of linguists who police translation practices?
Translation rights are typically restricted once granted. Publishers and authors retain this authority and can enforce it through contractual rights.
For example, different publishers require the same author be listed in different ways, causing search failures - https://forums.j-novel.club/topic/8178/website-mistake-two-series-have-the-same-author-but-different-names/7
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@Lily-Garden said in Hate on what you Love. Let's air our grievances.:
@unknownmat this why I have stayed away from Chinese light novels; I tried reading one once and I had trouble keeping everyone straight since the names were too similar!
The one I tried reading gave each character multiple names, which made them even harder to remember.
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The author of Wortenia is such literatury windbag. I’m starting to wander which is worse being forced to read redundant content over and over, or someone like Im Del Yung who just cuts off.
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I've got a weird one that comes up surprisingly often in LNs: The lack of good gender neutral pronouns in English! Especially when translating from a language where the phrasing might genuinely be ambiguous.
Alternatively titled: The overuse of gender reveals in LNs!
This comes up whenever the narration suddenly becomes coy about a particular character's gender. Everything is suddenly "they", "them", "their". And you just know that it's meant to be a big surprise when it finally gets revealed. The gender will just obviously be the opposite of whatever you might naturally assume. Unfortunately, what might have been a dramatic reveal in the source language hardly merits an eye roll in the English translation as it was spoiled from the beginning by the language itself.
I'm currently reading The Brilliant Healer’s New Life in the Shadows and there's this villain who is only ever seen covered by a grey cloak. Thanks to the sudden jarring use of gender neutral pronouns, I am confident that the villain is actually a villainess. And she will probably join his harem. Sigh. I've only finished volume one so far and have no fore-knowledge. If I turn out to be wrong I'll report back here, but I doubt that will happen.
