Upcoming JNC light novel price increases
-
@Tremarl I will point you to @admin 's post above. They can't raise the pay for freelancers without having the money in hand, and they can't get the money in hand without raising prices on the current catalog. They pay for translations at the time they're turned in, and that comes out of current revenue, not future revenue.
-
@Tremarl The admin has already explained why it's not being applied forward only though, because of the volume of sales made on the back catalogue any month, in order to maintain a forward facing price increase only they'd need to have put up the price $2 instead of $1. Plus since they're raising pay at the same time as they're raising prices, they need the added revenue now in order to pay for the products that will be coming out in the future.
Besides with book series it's not quite like video games and stuff. I can skip past instalments of a video game because the current game in the series will provide a level of explanation for people who don't want to go play the back catalogue if the old games have relevance in the current one. You're not going to parachute into the middle of a series unless you're coming off of another medium (say the LN has an anime and you want to start where the anime left off).
-
@Tremarl said in Upcoming JNC light novel price increases:
[Please note that labour is not an ongoing cost for an individual product it is a one off payment, unless a rev share is agreed with translators (very doubtful)]
I think I recall reading somewhere that J-Novel Club does have some arrangements with translators where they get a percentage. I'm not sure where I read that though.
-
@jpwong My comparison is in relation to digital media, and associated costs being upfront rather than downstream. It is a long term source of income, with a front loaded investment.
@Travis Butler
That's not how cash flow works. Most companies work on a debt basis. They don't have the cash in hand, they take credit and use that to meet their obligations. They do this, because this maximizes the capital they can allocate, which in turn maximizes growth.On a side note, as I only just noticed, its cheaper for me to buy Bookworm on Amazon at the moment than it is on J-novel. $6.31 (after conversion) on Amazon, but $6.99 at base price. Didn't expect that.
-
@Tremarl Yeah, that's true in terms of spent costs, I guess to the original point that was brought up, JNC is just choosing to spread the price increase across all of their product rather than having to do a larger increase on items going forward.
While I can't really say if doing it this way is better, it will bring their catalogue pricing in line with what other major industry players have been charging for a while now (Yen Press has been charging 7.99 for digital LNs for at least the last 8 years, and Seven Seas wants even more with titles starting at 8.99 and 9.99. Some of the newer players in the market like Tentai also charge 9.99 for digitals). So even with this adjustment (regardless of how you feel about how it's being done) JNC's prices are still going to be on the lower end of the spectrum.
-
@Tremarl you're a premium user though, 699 coins should cost you around 5.95 US.
-
@Thecardq And no taxes at that on JNC, whereas amazon would add about 75 cents of taxes (at least in the US).
-
This post is deleted! -
@jpwong I get the feeling the optics would have been many times better, had they done the price increase prior to switching to coins.
[I understand this does bring it more in line with some other publishers and series, although I think pricing itself is very dependent on a specific series. Overlord is £8.99 for example on Amazon for Kindle and £15 for hardback. However, I've bought some hardback series at £4 a book. So the market istelf is quite varied]
This would also avoid devaluation of credits.
@Thecardq I was talking about base price.
-
@Tremarl said in Upcoming JNC light novel price increases:
credit to a coin system.
I don't see it that way.
there have been several times where JNC asked the readership about interest in other media (audio works, the AoaB 'fanbooks', limited editions, extra content, other ephemera i.e bookmarks/posters etc. as seen in the crowdfunded Invaders campaign) and the problem arose that some of these things would be worth more or less than a single credit - with coins, in theory, if JNC wants to make a Fukro Toji bound, autographed (by author, translator, editor), omnibus of AoaB with mulberry washi endpapers, and charge 10,000 coins - I could opt to get that and support JNC in ways other than eBook purchases
-
Hi Jon
What I meant about Optics, was that the move from a credit system to a coin system, was a massive red flag, that prices were likely to change. Which was a massive downer on the "1 credit 1 book" system that Premium Membership is sold as. This is a simple system already used by many other retailers such as Audible, so is easy for consumers to understand.
To then change the price of the volumes subsequent to this, with a prewarning that the coin price might also change (for the entire catalogue). This is an even bigger red flag that the "1 credit 1 book" system is not likely to stay.
This itself, has the potential to lead to a alot of upset with some Premium Users or those that bulk bought at the outset, due to the devaluation of their purchase.
From a PR perspective, they should have announed the price increase while we were using the credit system, and then when moving over to the coin system had the appropriate amount qualified. There wouldn't be much substantial difference, but it'd look better in the public eye. It would also avoid the expected devaluation of saved or bulk coin/credit purchases.
On a side, note, because they have done it this way, if we take the unofficial comment by some people that if the price in coins goes up we would expect an increase in the monthly coins from the premium subscription; this would inadvertantly decrease the price for all other products, due to the closing gap between LN and Manga, unless the subscription cost itself was increased, but this cannot be done retro-actively. [This is actually quite problematic down the line if they seek to do any further price changes between media types themselves]
Sorry for the wall of text, I'm not great at explaining my thoughts in a concise but unambigous manner.
-
@Tremarl said in Upcoming JNC light novel price increases:
I'm not great at explaining my thoughts
you're doing fine - I get what you are saying.
coins may not go as far as credits in the future - I get it.the way I see it JNC had only a few choices:
- raise membership $$
- raise 'cover' prices
- give members less for the $$
they have business partners and the costs of doing business/ expenses are going going up. Inflation is a thing, and it crosses international borders.
So far JNC has neither raised membership fees, nor given members less - and I think this should be celebrated, I know some day JNC may have to, and with a coin system they at least have a way to minimize the pain. What if in the future, new releases cost 800 coins, but older volumes cost 500? This would generate more revenue and still give members a way to get more value per credit, or, if they have to cut the number of catchups but implement a 100 coin pass for a certain series - (so members can buy their own catchup?) The coins give so much more flexibility- and yea, sometimes that means some things will get more expensive.
I couldn't afford to buy credits in bulk. My premium membership IS a splurge, yet I have many credits in the 'bank' (I've been a member a long time) and I don't feel slighted about the change.Yes, it'll suck when prices go up (or the value of coins/credits go down) but that's the way of the world. (and to keep JNC going I think it is worth it) I remember when I could go to a bookstore and buy a paperback from 'the bargain bin' for $0.50....all things change
-
@Tremarl said in Upcoming JNC light novel price increases:
On a side, note, because they have done it this way, if we take the unofficial comment by some people that if the price in coins goes up we would expect an increase in the monthly coins from the premium subscription;
Just for reference, the staff have told us that on the discord. So it's not an unofficial comment, it comes directly out of the staff (of course, it'll also mean an increase in premium membership cost)
-
@Tremarl I guess the only thing there is they aren't increasing the price on their site, the price you would be buying with coins. Could they eventually? Sure, but that's going to be down the line. The only price going up right now is the one at third party retailers, so if you're buying at amazon, google play books, bookwalker, kobo, etc. So at the moment there is no devaluation of your credits.
-
Having thought about it a bit, in my opinion, a fair proposition would be canceling the conversion of credits to coins, and people with credits can keep using those til they run out. Maybe tie credit usage to certain existing series, to avoid a case where a future more expensive series can be bought for less. That way, the credits aren't devalued.
-
@seltzermx This would be my ideal situation, but at the same time I recognize there's typically a significant cost to maintaining a legacy system like that after they've finished overhauling their backend. The other thing is that the vast majority of people who maintain any significant credit balance probably bought bulk quantities during the Black Friday sales when credits were either $1.00 or $1.50 off, so even if the price did suddenly increase in tandem with the third party sites, the lost value would largely just put people's purchases back up to what the cost of credits were under normal circumstances.
That said, there would be 2 things that would be nice since I doubt they're going to pause the credit conversion. And that would be some sort of firm commitment that the coin price of standard ebooks won't be raised for X amount of time as well as some indication of what exactly sales are going to look like under the coin system.
I suppose for people who are concerned they're holding too much credit with JNC and that the conversion is going to depreciate that, they could reach out privately to JNC about the possibility of refunding some of their credit purchases. The transactions tab on the user page that was added shows they should know exactly how much you paid for credits and when.
-
@Tremarl said in Upcoming JNC light novel price increases:
Which was a massive downer on the "1 credit 1 book" system that Premium Membership is sold as.
I'll speak for myself, but I wasn't sold on premium membership by 1 credit = 1 book. Since regular membership could also get 1 credit = 1 book.
I was sold on premium membership = discounted books. Previously it just so happened to be a discount on the cost of a credit directly correlated to a discount on a book. Now the discount is hidden in the coin purchase; meaning that it looks like books cost more even though they don't.
This is an even bigger red flag that the "1 credit 1 book" system is not likely to stay.
The system you're referring to is already gone. Or at least nearly gone if you really want to be nitpicky, it'll definitely be gone after August 2, 2022. Which at least in terms of pricing changes on this website, is going to come before any price increase. (How long? My magic 8 ball told me "the future is hazy.") So, in praxis, I stand by my statement that the system of 1 credit = 1 book is already gone.
This itself, has the potential to lead to a alot of upset with some Premium Users or those that bulk bought at the outset, due to the devaluation of their purchase.
As long as someone pre-purchases bulk/banks coins with expectations of their future value, this will forever be a risk regardless of payment method: credit, coin, or cash. And while it sucks, they can pursue a refund and reset their expectations, or simply accept that life happens and now their money doesn't stretch as far. Sure, they can also whine about it but that'll rarely change things in their favor.
In terms of bulk pre-purchasing, I personally don't have an issue with "devaluation" of credits since at the moment, there is no practical devaluation. Looking deeper into the future... well present value does not in any way imply future value, presuming otherwise is speculation. With all speculation it's possible to win and/or lose. And with inflationary systems the result is normally a losing proposition.
While I only marginally cared about the future value of credits I had stockpiled. Based on usage rates while it would outlast the grace period, I simply opted to dump them into volumes I hadn't purchased yet. And now I don't have to concern myself with any future value speculation. At the time of announcement, it was quite obvious that volume prices would be rising eventually. (My magic 8 ball said, "The future is hazy," when I wondered when it'd occur.)
I still pre-purchase significant amounts of coins, but even still, I'm not expecting a specific quantity of coins to turn into a specific quantity of e-books. Manga e-books now being a thing does a good job at preventing it.
@seltzermx I'd only call it fair if the credits couldn't be used after JNC decides to raise premium volume prices, otherwise it would result in an unfair discount in volumes. After all, in a truly fair system a credit should be worth 7ish dollars towards a 7ish dollar e-book and 7ish dollars towards an 8ish dollar e-book. The only meaningful complaint about credit devaluation is that there's a 1 cent/credit devaluation in the conversion process, since they've adjusted the effective price of a book (and credit) down by 1 cent.
That devaluation, however, works out to $1 for every 100 books purchased and at worst around $10 if someone had purchased every last novel JNC had published at the time of announcement. (They're up at 1,003 purchasable novel volumes as of July 15, but that also includes Beatless which hadn't been up for sale before coins happened.)
And while $10 sounds like a lot, that someone had to pay at least $5k and up to $7k for the privilege of losing out on that $10. If someone thinks losing out on that $10 is such a big issue in those circumstances, I would like to know who they are so I can stay far, far, faaaar away from them.
-
@endoftheline
When I took out Membership, normal members did not have 1 credit each month for 1 book, but Premium Members did. Which is why I took out premium membership. So at least for me, it was very much on the basis of 1 credit = 1 book. I can't comment on the period prior to me taking out membership as I don't know what the terms were then.The 1 credit = 1 book, commitment is currently still in place on the catalogue prior to the change over to coins, and would I believe most likely need to stay for up to a year after any published change, because of commitments entailed with yearly subscription purchases.
Devaluation was in relation to prospective increase to match the price increase which is hinted at in the OP notice. I'd expect as they've done 1 coin = 1 cent, it'd go from 699 coins to 799 coins, which in turn is a loss of about 12% of value of any accrued coins through membership, or credit exchange.
From a practical perspective, it would have made more sense to have just kept the previous system, and then for other products or higher cost products, either list them separately and offer a discount by redeeming a credit (as a coupon for example), or have them only purcheasable with cash. As at present, there isn't really any functional difference between a virtual wallet (like steam has) and the coin system currently in use. Although, maybe this is semantics at this point.
-
@Tremarl Alright, I do have to agree that the biggest difference between the credit system and the coin system is that, before, the bonus credits would have the same purchasing power for the duration of the billing cycle could typically be assumed. However, now coins given out at the start of the billing cycle still having the same purchasing power at the end of the cycle is no longer certain.
The earliest version I could trivially access are from April of last year are the ToS dating to 2020 and FAQ. While the ToS doesn't say anything about expectations of value, the FAQ does still suggest that the monthly credit would equal one ebook. Though interestingly, the way the benefit is written, it could be interpreted as the monthly credit is only valid for the month it was given, not that the monthly credit could be banked for later.
Premium Members have all the benefits of normal Members, plus they get a Premium Credit to exchange for a Premium ebook once every month, saving you 20% off the retail ebook price!
For older than that, my shaky memory from five years ago didn't see anything that stood out as points of concern in the ToS and the stuff mentioned in the FAQ seems similar, but I'm not sure if I ever fully evaluated the implications of a value representation change with price increase. But the concern about whether or not the monthly credit could be banked across months sounds familiar to me. However, I can't tell you if it's something I caught back then, if someone posted a similar question on the forums at some point since, or both.
In any case, JNC would have to answer on this point of concern. And for those that don't like this change, they can always try pursuing a refund.
-
@endoftheline In terms of value, what we want to keep approximately the same is that Premium Membership provides an increased savings when buying coins/exchanging credits compared to otherwise.
Originally retail price for books was $7, and the premium membership was $6 more than the normal one, so you were saving 1/7 = ~14.2% off retail.
Currently, premium membership gives you 699 coins for $6, which is almost exactly the same discount (and also 15% off purchase of extra coins), so that's basically the same "discount" as before.
If we raise the price of books, we raise the price of books. So, let's say now we are selling them at 799 coins instead of 699, the coins you are getting from a premium membership are still ~15% discounted from the full $0.01 = 1 coin price.
However it would be inconvinient if we did this if we only gave out 699 for $6 extra each month if we raise the main price of premium epubs to 799 from 699, so instead what we would do is increase the price of a subscription from $10.95 to $11.95 a month, and instead of 699 coins you would get 799 coins every month instead. That's still getting 799 coins for $7, which is a 12.5% discount off the normal coin price. And being at that tier would still give you 15% off purchases of more coins.
In other words, raising ebook prices with a coin system does not devalue the coins, it raises the price of the things you can purchase with coins.
Originally with the credit system we were creating a value system based on the concept of "1 book" as a unit of value, and yes, we needed to change that. In one week when everyone's credits are automatically converted to coins as we announced ~3 months ago, that will end any concept of "1 book" being a fixed value.
