Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???
-
@alocervancouver From what I know, the anime diverges from the novels nearly after volume 1, and the second season of the anime is 100% original.
I'm not sure if the author really had trouble writing the series but it's pretty beloved in Japan. -
Well, I guess I underestimated people's thrive for escapism. I hope this stance won't hurt our chances of getting actually good novels and not just cheap wish-fulfillment fantasy, because from this discussion it feels like most of the crowd that JNC amassed wouldn't give a chance even to something like Seishun Buta not to mention thought out irl romance or drama. Which is honestly depressing and heavily limits JNC to the most juvenile series only.
@pleco_breeder said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
"Love, Chunibyo & Other Delusions"
Oh no, my PTSD is kicking in from how bad the anime was. Nooooooooooooo D':
-
I haven't read it because I'm not a big fan of the body-swapping gimmick, but what's this incident people are referring to?
-
@pjthomas404 They treated a voice actor pretty poorly. See for instance this article for a summary.
Also, just as an aside, in case you weren't aware: The body swapping is limited to the first volume; there following volumes feature different phenomena.
-
I can understand why some people wouldn't like it, I tried showing the anime to my sister and she just couldn't get into it and for months afterwards every time it came up she would tell me how much she hated it.
-
@jaquobus said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
They treated a voice actor pretty poorly. See for instance this article for a summary.
sounds like the usual case of an intense overreaction by the crowd that hurt even the person in question but the crowd didn't really care because they simply want to be hysterical about something
-
@novurdim said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
Well, I guess I underestimated people's thrive for escapism. I hope this stance won't hurt our chances of getting actually good novels and not just cheap wish-fulfillment fantasy.
I don't know if I'd categorize escapism or even blatant self-insert wish fulfillment as bad novels. Anything can be written well.
But this has been my fear for a while. It hasn't come to complete fruition yet though as we've gotten some novels that don't fit that mold even recently... But since a lot of them haven't sold amazingly, it makes me a bit worried, and it feels like JNC is kind of feeling through genres and potentially discarding some, like straight horror + mystery (I'm not really complaining that they should lose money on genres that don't sell, it just sucks personally as someone who wants some stuff in those spaces) and potentially light novels with heavily Shoujo looking covers.
The manga space will be something to watch as it all has elements of the fantastical so far. And we still haven't gotten a novel based in reality that doesn't have a fantastical element attached. I don't know if we have the audience for it (Rom Com maybe; drama, maybe no unfortunately). I'm very curious what the potential Yuri series Sam may be exploring turns out to be, and if that can bring in an audience too.
From a personal perspective, I like to challenge myself sometimes with reads about people that are different from myself (gender wise, sexual orientation wise, social status wise, even just hobby or work life wise) and different from the "self-insert / boy or girl next door" (and different from some of the fantasy based edge lord types who are only nice to the women in their lives as well). Some even small twist on the hero makes me happy (Suimei's desire to not get involved in the war of the fantasy world and just get the hell out, Haruhiro's introspective worried anxious thoughts that he has to work through to lead, Haru not taking any of the Otaku's BS in JK Haru + her being someone who had boyfriends + a social life in reality).
-
Complex discussions aside, everyone just has different tastes. I don't hate Kokoro Connect, just not interested.
-
@novurdim said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
Well, I guess I underestimated people's thrive for escapism. I hope this stance won't hurt our chances of getting actually good novels and not just cheap wish-fulfillment fantasy, because from this discussion it feels like most of the crowd that JNC amassed wouldn't give a chance even to something like Seishun Buta not to mention thought out irl romance or drama. Which is honestly depressing and heavily limits JNC to the most juvenile series only.
@pleco_breeder said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
"Love, Chunibyo & Other Delusions"
Oh no, my PTSD is kicking in from how bad the anime was. Nooooooooooooo D':
This sentiment details the exact problem with the post question. That being differing tastes of the readers. At the same time as arguing in favor of what I assume is a favorite of yours, you had to take a stab at the entire JNC library ("cheap wish-fulfillment" and "most juvenile series only"). Everyone has a right to their taste in reading material.
I'm reading between the lines here, but the original post seemed to be looking for reasons that the book wasn't overwhelmingly popular. I think "hated", as stated in the title, is a bit extreme as I know several people that are rather fond of the series. However, making derogatory statements regarding the preference of other members is not going to put your suggestions, "Seishun Buta not to mention thought out irl romance or drama", in a better light. It only makes the overall suggestion appear argumentative.
-
@novurdim well, how much sample did you did? also have you check the vote on license suggestion and still has the same conclusion? escapism is one thing and wish-fulfillment is another, but SOL series is still thriving imo.
-
@pleco_breeder said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
However, making derogatory statements regarding the preference of other members is not going to put your suggestions, "Seishun Buta not to mention thought out irl romance or drama",
Yep, but the point was to make a derogatory statement, seishun buta is only an example of what's popular among non-isekai right now.
I'm also occasionally up for some cheap wish-fulfilment self-insert fantasy, but the insane and overwhelming number of those clones in the ln-market makes you want to be a jerk about it sometimes, doesn't it? I know it does.
-
@novurdim said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
I'm also occasionally up for some cheap wish-fulfilment self-insert fantasy, but the insane and overwhelming number of those clones in the ln-market makes you want to be a jerk about it sometimes, doesn't it? I know it does.
Actually, no, it does not. There are plenty of more healthy responses to the saturation of wish-fulfillment isekai in the LN market than to be a jerk about other people's tastes. Promoting titles like Kokoro Connect as a "if you're tired of the usual, try this!" statement is a great response, without needing to slam those who like "the usual".
With all due respect, the only thing that makes you want to be a jerk about wish-fulfillment isekai is, well, wanting to be a jerk.
-
@stardf29 said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
With all due respect, the only thing that makes you want to be a jerk about wish-fulfillment isekai is, well, wanting to be a jerk.
No respect taken, your horse is too high. I'll just drop it before everyone offended turn it into a mess, I did say what I wanted to, even if relatively rudely. And since I fully understand what I'm doing, there's no real point in preaching.
-
Maybe I'll copy a response I posted to a curiouscat question here, it seems relevant:
I get a lot of opinions like “I don’t want to read something with all that drama.
Gosh, it's like I'm in a kindergarten. I really hope people with silly reasons like that are either vocal minority or you are simply yet to reach the intended audience for non-isekai titles with a stronger narrative. It's almost like they are saying "I only read intentionally bad literature, please don't bother with anything decent".
My resopnse:
A lot (and I mean a lot) of people love reality television. Such is the nature of modern media. If that is upsetting to you I have some nice escapist novels for you to read. -
@novurdim The bigger point is that IRL is a minority in Japanese literature. It's just not what's popular. It does exist, but is by far a minority. I'm going strictly from memory here (it's been exactly a year and six months today since I moved back to the US), so the numbers may be a bit skewed. However, the bookstores I frequented were overwhelmingly stocked with manga and light novels. My primary interest in Japanese books is history, so this was a bit annoying at times. However, outside of specialty bookstores, the average layout would be approximately 1/3 manga, another 1/3 LN (primarily focusing on whatever the current trend is (more on this in a second)), and then assorted general interest to include things like gardening or my coveted historical stories. The Kinokuniya on Shinjuku san chome was an exception to this, but that place was absolutely HUGE and subject matter was sorted primarily by floor. Even then if you took into consideration that one floor was for magazines and another was for Western (primarily English language) books, it followed the same basic pattern.
Back to LN's. The assortment follows trends in what people are reading. The first couple of months I was there, it seemed like every featured book was "Your Name" or a similar title. However, if you looked at the shelves where standard fare was stocked, practically everything was isekai or battle harem in some form or another. I literally spent two weekends hunting for "Love, Chunibyo & Other Delusions" in order to get them before leaving the country. Outside of specific genre, LN's are not very diverse. The "overwhelming number of those clones" is what drives the market in both original Japanese and English translation.
This doesn't mean they're not popular, but not popular enough to beat out the other titles for market share. Publishers print what they expect to make money. In a sense this comes down to culture as well.
As an anime fanatic, when I went over I expected that anime and related were going to be on the edge of society. I was shocked to find out that anime is the vast majority of prime time TV, so I asked a couple of Japanese about it. I'd always heard that anime was all for NEET or hikikimori and outcasts, so it didn't make sense. As it turns out, in reality, Japanese prefer it over live TV because there is a degree of separation from real life, aka it doesn't feel so serious as a recorded broadcast.
This doesn't mean that more realistic LN's don't exist, but the culture that's supplying this specific demand (LN) isn't really looking for something that reflects everyday life. For that matter, there are even book covers (a lot of them very nice looking and made from woven fabric) that can be purchased in the standard LN and manga size so people can hide the cover of what they're reading on the train because they don't want it known that they're reading an ecchi battle harem title on the way to work.
Between the lack of titles, and further reduced by titles which readers outside of Japan would find interesting enough to be popular/profitable, IRL is going to be a very fickle market. This isn't to say that there aren't some titles which may work, but rather that titles which aren't supported by the Westernized version of otaku culture are going to be exceptionally risky. For the most part, and I may be way off base here, that Westernized otaku culture is the target audience of JNC. Again that's only my own personal conjecture.
-
One more argument about Escapism:
Some people like to escape into lives that are worse off than their own. This isn't the only reason to seek out drama in lit, but it is one. The soap opera aspects, seeing people in better spheres of wealth still unhappy sometimes makes people feel better. This holiday season, a lot of people will be watching Scrooge to fulfill a desire to see how someone who is rich in money isn't better off than them in many other aspects of life (and in fact has to give more of his time and money to regain that humanity).
So that drama you and I may like is also someone's escapism. It's their sour grapes fulfillment sometimes.
-
@sam-pinansky said in Wait, Kokoro Connect is really hated???:
A lot (and I mean a lot) of people love reality television. Such is the nature of modern media. If that is upsetting to you I have some nice escapist novels for you to read.
Escaping to isekai novels from the lack of good LNs of the other genres sounds oddly fitting.
-
@jaquobus Good to know, that actually changes my mind a bit. I might check it out after all.
-
Well, I went and came back to find the topic flooded.
Anyhow~-
To clarify my intentions related to this thread.
The curious cat questions kinda gave the impression that Kokoro Connect is being rejected due to the past incident and it was continuation to some sort previous talk (either here or on discord...dunno)
So, I just wanted to see if that's true
After all, I know people here prefers light and fun reads -
I wanna address a few things I found weird....
a) There is nothing called body-switching genre. it's not a genre, it's like Isekai, a trope.
b) NOT ALL NON-FANTASY ARE SLICE OF LIFE or of the same genre...
"Haruhi Suzumiya" and "Love, Chunibyo & Other Delusions" are not of the same genre as Kokoro Connect.
Chunnibyou is romcom with a bit of peter pan syndrome (not about growing up, but enjoying the moment before growing up)
Haven't read Haruhi past anime yet ('cuz YP won't reprint that for people who came to the part late like me), but if it stays like the anime so it's more like meta comedy than coming of age... (There are moments where I think it can be coming of age, but never explored enough)
They all are of different genres.
And like how someone went ahead and asked Sam for more slice of life and the answer was there are fantasy slice of life for him to read (which is true)
Don't lump all non-fantasy together.
They are all different.- Now, I gotta wonder.
If people here don't want real drama, why is bunny so popular?
Just recency effect thing?
Why is a non-fantasy drama title higher than romcom and comedy titles on the license suggestions? just cuz it has anime this season not 2-5 years ago?
-
-
I like Bunny, despite not generally being a drama fan because the two main characters really caught me as being real. Their interactions feel much less contrived than the typical drama stuff. They don't feel forced to be dramatic or comedic, they simply are.
